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Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

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Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#161

Post by bflesch »

Frieren wrote: post #108
sfRattan wrote: post #12

With cars, networked computers are encroaching on privacy from two sides: the computers inside the car sharing sensor data and the computers outside the car sharing camera data from known points on the road. Older cars may not have cellular data, and some new cars (e.g. the Slate electric car) may be specifically designed without cellular connections or with easily removable chips, but so much can still be inferred f…

> The solution must be legislation that limits all of: data collected Let's finish the sentence there. Being spied by corporations 24/7 while we game, watch entertainment, drive, talk with friends, work... it's fucked up. We live in a hell of our own creation and only new legislation and regulations can get us out of here.

Those few decades where the normal person thought that they are not a servant to a feudalistic lord are over, the aristocrats don't need to hide any more. The old money is out in the open, because the populace has lost all their leverage.

They still lie to us about the true source of their wealth, but if you dig in the few archives that we can actually access it is clear that the same family names pop up over and over again.

If your family wealth came from feudalism/colonialism and was already safely stored in offshore accounts 100 years ago, you can send your nepo child to silicon valley or Hollywood, have your connections invest into them and tell the whole world what amazing self-made person they are. Some years down the line they go meet the King to get their hereditary Lordship title back for the whole world to know.

All of this is in the national security interest, so your kids are above the law even though they might only be a Hollywood talent scout, CEO of some startup or a real estate mogul focused on black neighborhoods.

For several hundred years being aristocrat was really unpopular, but ultimately they got a grip on it by owning all means of mass propaganda plus building a file on everyone.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#162

Post by itopaloglu83 »

phantomathkg wrote: post #83

It is fascinating that we still haven’t have a law that forbid the car company from automatically share the data. The car owner is buying a car, using computer to handle complicate hardware I understand, but at what point it make sense to share the data automatically without consent?

In Honda vehicles, you can turn it off but then it will show a permanent warning on your dash saying your spying settings are off and keeps bugging you as if you’re out of fuel.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#163

Post by close04 »

notarobot123 wrote: post #104
throwaway27448 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution must be legislation that limits all of: data collected by cars and cameras, data shared among third parties, and placement of cameras without informed, specific, continuing public consent. Americans will give away any and all material and immaterial rights to validate their illusion of comfort and security. This will not happen barring a complete audit/revamp of the state

Yet even those who aim to remake the state change their tune when they become the state.

Becoming the state means getting power. Very few people are strong enough to not be corrupted by this power, and to argue against themselves, or their function, or the powerful people around them having so much of this power or more of it.

Normal people give it up because they are permanently under assault by misinformation, misdirection, lack of education, artificial threats, all meant to guide them towards a conclusion that was already predetermined for them.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#164

Post by hnlmorg »

jjav wrote: post #155
Frieren wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution must be legislation that limits all of: data collected Let's finish the sentence there. Being spied by corporations 24/7 while we game, watch entertainment, drive, talk with friends, work... it's fucked up. We live in a hell of our own creation and only new legislation and regulations can get us out of here.

> We live in a hell of our own creation Well not "our" creation since only a few oligarchs control most of the companies that engage in this. > and only new legislation and regulations can get us out of here. The same oligarchs control nearly all the legislators, so no way out.

Yup. This has been my experience when campaigning for change too.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#165

Post by bflesch »

kakacik wrote: post #143
verisimi wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's finish that thought too. You're asking for new legislation written by governments that a/ want that data to spy on you too and b/ are lobbied by corporations to write the legislation corps want. It's a closed loop of crap, that goes in one direction only.

No worries, next generation won't even understand what we are blabbing about. Look at that cute cat video! Privacy what? Oh that puppy is rolling on his back!

Once your intergenerational wealth is offshore you can pick any of your nepo offspring and make them a hollywood star or unicorn startup CEO with a clean wikipedia page. Their wealth is also tied to national security jobs, because those make you immune in front of the law plus you have the benefit of constructing identities (and death certificates) out of thin air.

For example very rich people in the US receive vanity SSNs. Ghislaine Maxwell has one that spells out "Leet Babe". It's like number plates to show off.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#166

Post by dominicrose »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #64
Gigachad wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The end state is something like China, where petty street level crime is essentially solved. You can leave your bike unlocked because if anyone stole it the police would find them and return it since they can track the thief on a network of cameras. But like you say, many things which have been crimes were based on unethical laws. It's easy to two sides this issue, less crime would on a whole be a good thing but some…

> The end state is something like China, where petty street level crime is essentially solved. Petty crime in China was also "essentially solved" before there were cameras anywhere. > You can leave your bike unlocked because if anyone stole it the police would find them and return it since they can track the thief on a network of cameras. Leaving my bike unlocked in Shanghai 10+ years ago, it was stolen about once ev…

Using a very lightweight lock for the frame and ideally having a saddle and wheels that can't come off without tools would change things economically, especially if the bike is cheap but good enough.

The issue is having to rely on luck and the fact that humans are risk and loss aversive even when the risk is worth it.

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#167

Post by bflesch »

coliveira wrote: post #42
vannevar wrote: post #23

Every corporation is trying to spy on you. Why wouldn't they? There is no real punishment, and large reward. As long as that is true, superficial regulations around tracking will always be circumvented or hollowed out. We need fundamental change in the way corporations interact with society, and in what is expected of them.

The time to do this was 30 years ago. While today we need it more than ever, it is probably already too late: corporations will find those trying to do this and stop them.

Indeed. It started with intercepting letters and couriers, then storing phone calls, radio communications, operating labs to build DNA databases from blood samples, and now large-scale data collection for AI.

Archives tie Epstein and Maxwell individually to various companies in those areas, and a truckload of familiar family names show up along them. My assessment is that people like Thiel and Musk are not self-made, they are intelligence nepo children leveraging aristocratic/colonial offshore wealth of their families.

What is better than being rich and above the law due to your role in intelligence?

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#168

Post by isodev »

nbernard wrote: post #114
isodev wrote: post #25

It was totally predictable, unfortunately. At least in the EU it’s quite illegal and even if a car maker slips something in, GDPR is always there so one can request a copy and have it deleted. Wish the regulation was even stricter though.

At the same time, EU mandates that new cars must have a system able to call help if it detects a crash with the driver not responding... And I suspect most manufacturers will argue that telemetry data are not PIIs until taken to court, so since they have to put a cellular connection anyway, why not use it?

There is a very clear definition of PII so I don’t see this being a problem

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#169

Post by isodev »

drnick1 wrote: post #68
isodev wrote: post #25

It was totally predictable, unfortunately. At least in the EU it’s quite illegal and even if a car maker slips something in, GDPR is always there so one can request a copy and have it deleted. Wish the regulation was even stricter though.

The GDPR is a joke. It does not prevent the real problem (data collection). Tech companies can in principle be fined for misusing your data, but most companies won't get caught or will simply pay the fine.

GDPR is useful because it defines what must be protected (or avoided). It’s straightforward to do the right thing as a company.

To make it stricter or pack a bigger punch, there needs to be stronger mandate for such legislation. And we live in interesting times… wars, previously democratic allies disintegrating, useless right wing or russia-aligned governments and MEPs, etc…

So yeah, could be better but all you and I can do is talk to our MEPs, help inform people outside tech, vote this way and hope enough people share the concerns

Re: Cars collect a startling amount of data about you

#170

Post by KennyBlanken »

vegetablepotpie wrote: post #62
sfRattan wrote: post #12

With cars, networked computers are encroaching on privacy from two sides: the computers inside the car sharing sensor data and the computers outside the car sharing camera data from known points on the road. Older cars may not have cellular data, and some new cars (e.g. the Slate electric car) may be specifically designed without cellular connections or with easily removable chips, but so much can still be inferred f…

Unfortunately the legislation that exists requires surveillance tech be installed on new vehicles. https://www.gadgetreview.com/federal-surveillance-tech-becom...

Just because it's a camera based system doesn't mean it will be surveillance.

Except in mid to high end luxury cars, automakers will probably design the sensor to be completely self-contained and merely provide a "driver present, attentive" or "driver distracted" or "no driver." In high end cars they'll use it to switch driver profiles, like what Lucid already does.

Both you and that author need to go look at the massive amount of data that has been getting collected in cars, including location data, for close to two decades in any vehicle that even had the option for telematics and GPS navigation.

Also the issue is not so much the camera system, but the "OS" the car is running. A ton of vehicles now have Google's Android OS running on them and that is also a privacy dumpster fire in and of itsel.

Also, a nationwide network of license plate reading cameras is far more of a privacy threat, too.

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