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News about Raspberry Pi 6 and Microcontroller Development

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: News about Raspberry Pi 6 and Microcontroller Development

#161

Post by rldjbpin »

peteforde wrote: post #11

Pi's refusal to drop a USB-C on Pico due to cost increases is a terrible call IMO. I seriously cannot fathom being someone doing development who wouldn't pay $0.50 extra to purge the last micro USB from their desktop.

i understand that if they implement a port, it is usually well done (besides the unfortunate 27.1w 5a bs for the rpi5). so unlike cheapo electronics that do come with barely working type c.

however, while in one hand we are happy to (albeit temporarily) raise prices based on ram situation, in terms of design, there is simply not enough money for the port. especially when now they are adding ecosystem items that do cost money to develop and maintain.

this explanation made sense pre-ipo but no longer imho.

Re: News about Raspberry Pi 6 and Microcontroller Development

#162

Post by perarneng »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #2

> " ...: It sounds like the key feature will be 'more': a faster CPU and faster IO, rather than new features. " Raspberry Pi Holdings is a embedded systems manufacturer for pity's sake; we don't need more from them, we need less. [EDIT] A faster Raspberry Pi 6 is encroaching on the territory of the Intel N150 and its successors and mainstream Linux distributions and that is a battle they would lose in terms of price…

> Raspberry Pi Zero 3W with proper sleep states to reduce sleep power consumption, lower idle power while awake, and 1 GB of RAM even if it doubles the price.

Yes, that would be kind of a dream device, perhaps also if it could suspend the os when asleep so it doesn't have to boot every time but I guess that might the standard way of doing it.

Re: News about Raspberry Pi 6 and Microcontroller Development

#164

Post by hellweaver666 »

MisterTea wrote: post #57
Aurornis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that Raspberry Pi is not a good general purpose computer, but some of these criticisms are starting to feel like a pile-on with partially incorrect information. > the latest pi needs considerations of cooling solutions FYI you can run the Raspberry Pi 5 without a fan or even a heatsink. It will safely throttle itself if it gets too hot. If you're trying to get maximum performance out of it all the time, you w…

> > It was a "microcontroller" you could program in Python > It was never a microcontroller by any definition of the word. I think the poster means people treat the R-Pi like an MCU that runs Python. The Arduino was popular at the time the Pi came out but limited. Once the Pi landed, it quickly filled the gap and the Arduino's popularity diminished to the point where it's now a corporate Pi clone.

Before we had the ESP32 type products that are now popular, using a Pi was often one of the only easy ways to make simple internet connected devices at home. I remember making smart lights and home sensors, speakers, clocks and all sorts of things using the Pi Zero W. It was cheap, small and easy to get up and running.

I and many other people very much used it like a microcontroller.

Re: News about Raspberry Pi 6 and Microcontroller Development

#165

Post by esskay »

Hard to care anymore. They made it abundantly clear they dont care about their original audience of makers and education anymore now that the industrial market are so reliant on them. Not to mention the whole crapping all over their customers on social media and then accusing them of some sort of coordinated 'attack' just made it clear they're clueless about their audience.

The price increases were the end of the Pi being a viable option for most application in my eyes.

Re: News about Raspberry Pi 6 and Microcontroller Development

#166

Post by bradfa »

sq_ wrote: post #113
hedora wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do know those are trivially bypassed with a signal processor, right? If physical access is outside your threat model, that's OK, but it makes (for example) the forced Win11 upgrade for DRM^H^H^H boot integrity enforcement seem ridiculous. https://pulsesecurity.co.nz/articles/TPM-sniffing

Yeah, fair enough. "Compliance" is probably the phrasing I should've used, rather than "security". I've been curious for a while about the overall taxonomy of security, especially for embedded platforms. It seems like the only hope is defense in depth, given the power glitching attacks and the like that you can find demonstrated. Specific to the Raspberry Pi, I believe I even saw a thread at some point where one of t…

Normal secure boot does not use the TPM. Secure boot is the proactive process of ensuring only allowed code loads and executes.

The TPM is used for measured boot, the post process to understand what actually was booted and if the right set of things were booted then to allow unlocking of specific items like keys.

Both are important but they are not the same thing.

Re: News about Raspberry Pi 6 and Microcontroller Development

#167

Post by bcjdjsndon »

giobox wrote: post #34
wrxd wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still true that people, out of convenience and familiarity, used Raspberry Pi for tasks where a microcontrollers would have been perfectly adequate

There was definitely usecase overlap due to the presence of the GPIO, but huge numbers of Pis ended up doing things a microcontroller can't - stuff like the PiHole and Retropie projects, and never used their GPIO pins at all. Thinking of any of the early Pis as microcontrollers ignores a huge amount of the ways in which actual end users interacted with the thing, and even the way it was sold and marketed. Upton was t…

> but huge numbers of Pis ended up doing things a microcontroller can't

Mate you know full well it was multiple things... Marketed to education as an actual computer, to the maker demographic as a microcontroller, as a way to learn coding but also robotics etc

>Thinking of any of the early Pis as microcontrollers ignores blah blah blah

Same applies to thinking of them as SBCs

Re: News about Raspberry Pi 6 and Microcontroller Development

#168

Post by newswasboring »

Neywiny wrote: post #3
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #2

> " ...: It sounds like the key feature will be 'more': a faster CPU and faster IO, rather than new features. " Raspberry Pi Holdings is a embedded systems manufacturer for pity's sake; we don't need more from them, we need less. [EDIT] A faster Raspberry Pi 6 is encroaching on the territory of the Intel N150 and its successors and mainstream Linux distributions and that is a battle they would lose in terms of price…

^^^ when I tell people tangential to the field that the latest pi needs considerations of cooling solutions and a beefy power supply (no more just any old micro usb cable into any old usb port), they're astonished. It was a "microcontroller" you could program in Python with a friendly Linux environment and is now an expensive, power hungry, hot computer with a microcontroller hanging off of it

Personally I have never seen Raspberry Pi as anything but a small personal computer. I've maintained a home server which get upgraded as Pi's upgrade. It runs well and manages my media, files and now running hermes agent. I remember even the first time it was introduced to me was with look it runs linux and you can probably run VLC on it.

Re: News about Raspberry Pi 6 and Microcontroller Development

#169

Post by robocat »

mschuster91 wrote: post #106
Aurornis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that Raspberry Pi is not a good general purpose computer, but some of these criticisms are starting to feel like a pile-on with partially incorrect information. > the latest pi needs considerations of cooling solutions FYI you can run the Raspberry Pi 5 without a fan or even a heatsink. It will safely throttle itself if it gets too hot. If you're trying to get maximum performance out of it all the time, you w…

> Powering something off of any old USB port means it would have to fit within the 5V 500mA basic specification, which the Raspberry Pi 3 exceeded long ago. In practice most USB wall warts will happily provide 2 amps or even more with no overcurrent protection at all. The 500 mA limitation, at least outside of ports on computers (where you'll maybe get a prompt on Windows and macOS), is theoretical.

Irrelevant...

They need to stick within limits to avoid liability (and avoid arseholes blaming them on forums).

Someone would get a problem with their computer or TV, and then blame Raspberry Pi (or create a problem).

Re: News about Raspberry Pi 6 and Microcontroller Development

#170

Post by akazantsev »

alexellisuk wrote: post #157

I was thinking about the RPi 6 yesterday whilst realising I couldn't set up my RPi Zero 2W anymore - the OS has become burdensome - tied strictly to an imager, that gives me an allergic reaction. Yes - they did all this for the uninitiated - but for Raspberry Pi OS Lite - bring back this experience: dd the image, write ssh into the boot drive, SSH in - change password, fully set up in almost zero fuss or effort. Then…

> __These days__ a 175 GBP N95 from a no-name Chinese OEM on Amazon, with 16 GB of RAM and a 500GB SATA SSD is way better value and performance - and importantly - zero fuss - standard setup.

"These days" seems to be over for now. The prices went up there, and now the only affordable option is an old laptop's motherboards with DDR3 sticks. But passively cooled PCs are rare, so the Raspberry Pi still makes sense. As a bonus, it is easier to power and find a small UPS that will keep it running for hours.

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