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Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

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Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#21
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could equally illustrate the difference between long established multi national companies with an overbearing corporate culture vs young upstart companies with a dynamic startup culture.

Yea is there not a saying about when the suits and bean counters take over a company the culture dies?

I know it as "when the Elves leave Middle Earth" from an essay of the same name:

https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-ear...

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if companies can T&C their way out of any problem.

pretty much. correct me if I am wrong, but these T&C treated like "local" laws (in respect to interaction of client and business within their interaction) within most jurisdictions by courts. so even if T&C does not make sense, usually courts are in favour of enforcing them. unless some severe contradiction with constitution or alike, or serious harm to people or something, they would throw away T&C in cases. but AFA…

Definitely not. you cant have T&C that are against the law, event if consumer has agreed to that. Like you cant sell your kidney even if you want to. Its illegal.

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if companies can T&C their way out of any problem.

pretty much. correct me if I am wrong, but these T&C treated like "local" laws (in respect to interaction of client and business within their interaction) within most jurisdictions by courts. so even if T&C does not make sense, usually courts are in favour of enforcing them. unless some severe contradiction with constitution or alike, or serious harm to people or something, they would throw away T&C in cases. but AFA…

No: T&C cannot override the law, that is a national/EU law is still superior to anything that is written in the T&C. If there is a contrast between T&C and the law of course that T&C are just scratch paper.

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#24
Quite a few other manufacturers have done the same thing. I use a reverse engineered Polestar library to get charging status but I'm in the middle of building a CANBUS sniffer to do the same job because I don't trust they won't do the same thing as this.

I don't really understand it, it doesn't seem to offer a huge potential revenue stream and it pisses off the people who are most invested in your product.

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#25

This comment has really nice translation of corpo-speek to human language : https://github.com/robinostlund/homeassistant-volkswagencarn... Why are they shooting them selves in the feet? Is this really a tangible income stream? Is it really increasing security?

> Why are they shooting them selves in the feet? 1. They dont think anyone will stop buying their cars because of this 2. They want to make more money 3. (speculation) The drop in demand for their cars in china is leaving them fucked, they need revenue now

Unfortunately I think they're right on #1. In the grand scheme of things the lost sales because of this change are a drop in the bucket. HA and similar tools are not that popular, very few people who have their mind set on buying a VW will change their minds because of this alone.

What's worse is that other manufacturers are starting to do the same thing. They all see unofficial integrations as lost revenue (less of your data to sell because you don't use their app), and higher costs because the usage still comes on their cloud spend bill.

I was talking to my gadget-passionate (but not techie) best friend when the company making our cars made it more difficult to authenticate using the HA integration. He looked at me like I switched to an alien language. "Who cares? Don't you use the app?".

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#27

[flagged]

> if you don't like that car/company, don't buy their product. buy competitors. that will show them much better. (or petition to government to put pressure on them).

That maybe fine, but if something is allowed at the time I've bought the car, and then the manufacturer changes their policy such that the usage that I did is no longer allowed?

BTW, to me this is bullshit, first cars shouldn't be connected to the internet in the first place, in the case that they are, I would need to be in full control of what I can do with the API, not that I need to use special software to talk to my own car.

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if companies can T&C their way out of any problem.

pretty much. correct me if I am wrong, but these T&C treated like "local" laws (in respect to interaction of client and business within their interaction) within most jurisdictions by courts. so even if T&C does not make sense, usually courts are in favour of enforcing them. unless some severe contradiction with constitution or alike, or serious harm to people or something, they would throw away T&C in cases. but AFA…

> T&C treated like "local" laws. so even if T&C does not make sense, usually courts are in favour of enforcing them. unless some severe contradiction with constitution or alike

It's not a "law", it's always under the law like any contract. And a court will not enforce illegal terms unless something very shady is afoot. The law always takes precedence, Even "lowly" laws, not just the constitution. In case of conflict the law wins so you can't have illegal provisions in the T&C even if you agree to them. They can give you extra rights but they can't take away the ones you have legally.

The principle is simple, the company isn't allowed to ask for illegal things. Your agreement is irrelevant because you are not entitled to legitimize an illegal demand.

The problem is you need to go to court if the company won't cooperate.

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#29
post #4

I recently saw a group of automakers together during an event. The contrast between Chinese and Germans was bizare. The group of german automakers were older men in black suits all wearing badge with titles like Senior Executive Sales blablabla. Whereas the Chinese were all young people wearing causual clothing and much more engineering minded. No wonder why european auto makers are doing so badly. They forgot to ple…

This could equally illustrate the difference between long established multi national companies with an overbearing corporate culture vs young upstart companies with a dynamic startup culture.

The question is why doesn't Germany have any young upstart auto companies when the US and China do? The question being the rhetorical kind.

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#30
I mean, it was founded by the Nazi party, they single handedly destroyed diesels through the world's largest scam, what ethics can you really expect from them? I find it extremely funny when people boycott Teslas for being "Nazi" but won't boycott actual Volkswagens that was founded by the real Nazi party and to date - followed some of the most unethical practices in automative history :)
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