Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

sfstandard.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 169 posts

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#71

Post by Borealid »

frrr wrote: post #69
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> primary purpose of an LLC is to make it so that the owners (often the founders) cannot personally be held responsible for debts the company incurs It’s more so investors who aren’t involved in day-to-day decision making can invest without worrying that the founders will create liability for them.

This. You can still go after management in certain circumstances

I said the owners can't be held liable, I meant the owners can't be held liable.

You can "in certain circumstances" (negligence, overt criminality...) go after the managers. You probably can't go after the managers for things like producing a business plan they could have plausibly believed was legal and causing the company to incur civil liability.

In the situation described in this article, probably both the owners and the managers (likely the same people!) get away without being held accountable, and the victims have no recompense because the company folds.

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#72

Post by elzbardico »

tclancy wrote: post #28
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly this ethos, the "move fast and break things", and oh, we don't give a fuck about who/what we damage in the process - careless people indeed. I am someone who came of age during an incredibly hopeful time about how technology could be a force for good. The silicon valley ethos at present is totally morally bankrupt and rotten to the core.

Same. Growing up Gen X, I always thought robots being used for evil would be cool dystopian dictatorships that would try to grind me under its boot but I would resist. Instead it’s just twerps who are so terminally online they can’t fathom other people seem to have feelings. Now I’m getting even angrier imagining the email that went around internally on how to spin this and why it was a short term loss but will be fo…

the banality of evil is a recurring theme in human history.

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#73

Post by elzbardico »

DrewADesign wrote: post #30
fjni wrote: post #13

> Founded by alums of Tesla and the autonomous vehicle company Cruise, the San Francisco startup has received hundreds of millions in venture capital funding and is valued at $2 billion Stop outsourcing the cost of your vision to the rest of society. Especially when it’s peanuts to you and meaningful to, in this case, the host of what they call an apartment and you seem to think is a test course.

Nobody in this startup landscape gives a shit about anybody or anything that isn’t, at that very moment, contributing to their product development, market share, or raising capital. Even then, they only give a shit if they can’t avoid it and still get what they want. The second they are no longer useful, they’re thrown out like a bag of moldy tangerines. Morally bankrupt “leaders” employing people too inexperienced t…

To be frank, nowadays nobody even cares about product fit, if it really works. What matters is creating a narrative compelling enough first to raise capital, then use this capital to create a narrative for a profitable exit. The product itself is secondary.

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#74

Post by maxbond »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #46
kibwen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are, in fact, allowed to hate both the player and the game. It is long established that "just following orders" is not a defense.

I don’t know if the concept of the Nuremberg defense is really applicable to, you know, basic property damage.

I don't understand the alternative, that it would be legal to break the law as long as it were a petty crime and you were being paid to do it? It's a principle, it applies broadly. We tend to think about it in terms of the most dramatic and memorable example but that's neither here nor there.

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#75

Post by elzbardico »

fidotron wrote: post #9
starkparker wrote: post #3

so, so close to having people legitimately and earnestly start saying "we don't serve their kind here" while gesturing to humanoid robots

Human only "safe spaces" will be a thing. Where they draw the line will be the question.

The billionaires will still be mostly served by humans, probably former SWEs as the oligarchs will find all this situation amusingly entertaining.

Of course, the're will be a few robot dogs patrolling the fences and hidden behind closets on the rare occasions the servants decide to rebel.

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#76

Post by est31 »

randycupertino wrote: post #54
htrp wrote: post #4

>Donovan alleges that employees of the Bot Company(opens in new tab) rented his home “under false pretenses” to conduct prototype testing on robots they’re training to do household chores. >A refrigerator shelf was cracked, and a broken glass or dish had been left in the garbage disposal. A wooden nightstand drawer was chipped. Cups and plates were in the wrong places. It looked like the furniture had been moved arou…

The irony is the company is trying to make robots to help clean airbnbs for renter turnovers. Instead they are messing up airbnbs and making them harder to clean before turnovers.

It's fine to make mistakes, that's how you learn. The problem here was that they didn't announce to the host that they are doing a test of their in-development equipment.

So the host wasn't able to add the additional risk and hassle to the price, which in this instance would have been a quite legitimate ask as the robot damaged their revenue generating property.

It's very ironic that Airbnb itself has done similar practices in the past where it ignored hospitality regulations to establish their business model, i.e. not asking for permission but for forgiveness.

The Airbnb style response would be to gig-ify this model where you ask an independent contractor to buy the test robot, rent the Airbnb, and test it out instead of you doing it yourself. Then the contractor bears the risk of damages to the property.

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#77

Post by hansvm »

ianm218 wrote: post #51
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly this ethos, the "move fast and break things", and oh, we don't give a fuck about who/what we damage in the process - careless people indeed. I am someone who came of age during an incredibly hopeful time about how technology could be a force for good. The silicon valley ethos at present is totally morally bankrupt and rotten to the core.

It sounds like they cost a couple hundred dollars in damages I’m not sure it damns a whole generation

Well let's get right on that then. If you'd kindly share your address and those of your favorite friends and family, we'll go distribute a couple hundred in damages to each of them.

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#79

Post by david_shi »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #42
DrewADesign wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody in this startup landscape gives a shit about anybody or anything that isn’t, at that very moment, contributing to their product development, market share, or raising capital. Even then, they only give a shit if they can’t avoid it and still get what they want. The second they are no longer useful, they’re thrown out like a bag of moldy tangerines. Morally bankrupt “leaders” employing people too inexperienced t…

This is the product of "rugged individualism" so prized of Reagan/Thatcher politics. Thatcher meant exactly this when she said "there's no such thing as society". I've got mine, you can all go f*ck yourselves. We need to get back to a place where other people matter, where the implicit social contract is honoured by everyone, and there are consequences for breaking it.

which itself seems to have been just a ruse:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QTcL6Xc_eMM

Re: SF startup is testing robots in Airbnbs, and trashing them, lawsuit claims

#80

Post by mrandish »

est31 wrote: post #76
randycupertino wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is the company is trying to make robots to help clean airbnbs for renter turnovers. Instead they are messing up airbnbs and making them harder to clean before turnovers.

It's fine to make mistakes, that's how you learn. The problem here was that they didn't announce to the host that they are doing a test of their in-development equipment. So the host wasn't able to add the additional risk and hassle to the price, which in this instance would have been a quite legitimate ask as the robot damaged their revenue generating property. It's very ironic that Airbnb itself has done similar pr…

> The problem here was that they didn't announce to the host that they are doing a test of their in-development equipment.

I might be okay forgiving skirting the disclosure rules BUT only if they tried to be model tenants and, if there was any damage, took steps to proactively make things right. If you're breaking the rules, even if there was no damage, you should definitely be cleaning up and putting things back in place.

Post reply on HN