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Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

construction-physics.com

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Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#41

Post by XenophileJKO »

taneq wrote: post #15
dyauspitr wrote: post #6

We have effectively managed to demonize factory made houses by referring to the people that live in them as trailer trash. I honestly think 3-D printed concrete houses at some point will be how most things are built you’ll get tons of Americans talking about how do you can’t access the wires/plumbing and stuff and it basically just comes down to having enough windows or access points into the inner wall. Not to menti…

3D printing isn’t going to make houses hugely much cheaper. The lion’s share of the cost of a house is fit-out. Doors, windows, lighting, plumbing, cabinets, tiling, painting. What needs to happen is modular designs where the house is made out of standardised ready-made components that are mass produced in a factory and plug together to form a finished house.

I would also like it if the modular units could self drive so I can take my house on vacation.

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#42

Post by landryraccoon »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #34
hedora wrote: post #31

I think standardized codes would help a lot. Another major issue is labor mobility: Here in California, there's a big labor shortage for all blue collar trades, and even if they do live in the area, they have to spend a lot of time going to/from the job site. I think this can be largely solved by technology, but with a change of regulations, code, and division of labor in the trades. 1) Put all the power conduit, plu…

The problem is that most of the country wants housing to get more expensive... You're going to have a hard time getting anything passed when a lot of people will do anything and everything to make sure housing can never get cheaper and only more expensive...

That’s already backfiring because high housing costs drive down the birth rate.

If the next generation is smaller than the previous generation, housing prices will collapse.

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#43

Post by _carbyau_ »

crabmusket wrote: post #23
wanoir wrote: post #14

One thing that can’t be scaled is “prime location” There will be locations that are more desirable than others, and even if you keep building houses where there’s space, the need to congregate in particular areas (such as for work) will result in particular locations being more desirable. And, it’s hard to increase the density of an area once the housing supply is already built out. So instead, that supply stays fixe…

I've been thinking about this a lot. It feels to me like we* are not good at making new places that people want to be, so we spend a lot of energy working out how to maximally utilise the existing good places. There will of course be some places that are uniquely popular e.g. due to their geography or natural beauty. Humans tend to congregate around centres of economic activity, which means some places become popular…

> we* are not good at making new places that people want to be

So much this. Australia has ridiculous space compared to population. In comparison to somewhere like Singapore, we have sooo much space.

And yet bureaucracy seems to be trying to kill off most places not a capital city...

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#45

Post by nradov »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #38
pessimizer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Density trashes a location.

This attitude is anathema to affordable housing. One fundamentally cannot get it where people want it without density.

Really? Some of the least dense areas are also among the most affordable.

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#46

Post by crabmusket »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #39
crabmusket wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking about this a lot. It feels to me like we* are not good at making new places that people want to be, so we spend a lot of energy working out how to maximally utilise the existing good places. There will of course be some places that are uniquely popular e.g. due to their geography or natural beauty. Humans tend to congregate around centres of economic activity, which means some places become popular…

> we are not good at making new places that people want to be Isn’t this every boom town or place complaining about their quaint community blowing up?

I'm not sure I follow entirely.

If you're responding to an implication that people should go have their own nice place elsewhere and not bother me in my nice place... yeah, I can understand why that's problematic. But I don't think the position "we should build more nice places" is itself a wrong position to take.

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#47

Post by JumpCrisscross »

crabmusket wrote: post #46
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are not good at making new places that people want to be Isn’t this every boom town or place complaining about their quaint community blowing up?

I'm not sure I follow entirely. If you're responding to an implication that people should go have their own nice place elsewhere and not bother me in my nice place... yeah, I can understand why that's problematic. But I don't think the position "we should build more nice places" is itself a wrong position to take.

I’m saying every time a quiet town’s housing market booms, that is peoples’ preferences around where they want to live shifting.

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#48

Post by JumpCrisscross »

nradov wrote: post #45
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude is anathema to affordable housing. One fundamentally cannot get it where people want it without density.

Really? Some of the least dense areas are also among the most affordable.

> Some of the least dense areas are also among the most affordable

Taking into account job opportunities and cost of goods, it’s often a wash or worse, particularly if you consider standard of living.

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#49

Post by dyauspitr »

taneq wrote: post #15
dyauspitr wrote: post #6

We have effectively managed to demonize factory made houses by referring to the people that live in them as trailer trash. I honestly think 3-D printed concrete houses at some point will be how most things are built you’ll get tons of Americans talking about how do you can’t access the wires/plumbing and stuff and it basically just comes down to having enough windows or access points into the inner wall. Not to menti…

3D printing isn’t going to make houses hugely much cheaper. The lion’s share of the cost of a house is fit-out. Doors, windows, lighting, plumbing, cabinets, tiling, painting. What needs to happen is modular designs where the house is made out of standardised ready-made components that are mass produced in a factory and plug together to form a finished house.

I think 3-D printing is still important. You can build the heaviest and most “untransportable” part using 3-D printing which is accurate enough to leave appropriate gaps for the fit out where it’s plug-and-play and those components are mass produced in a factory.

Re: Where are the economies of scale in homebuilding?

#50

Post by Animats »

Key statement: "The fact that the ratio between costs of constructing a home and the costs of the various materials is already so low is fundamentally what makes achieving substantial economies of scale difficult."

That's striking. Building houses looks labor-intensive, but, if that's correct, labor cost isn't that large a fraction of the final cost.

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