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I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

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Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#141

Post by kanbankaren »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #135
kanbankaren wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For emergency comms(remember, emergency services provided by the state don't monitor the ham bands, so can't call them), a $20 ham radio would work or just carry FRS radios. FCC does allow use of a ham radio in a real emergency without a license.

I was thinking more along the lines of an organized S&R team. They would probably need some robust, non-problematic kit that could work in any environment.

> They would probably need some robust, non-problematic kit that could work in any environment.

Nothing is more robust than ham radio at 144/420 MHz. Even first responders use frequencies adjacent to this and has the same RF propagation characteristics.

For S&R teams, you could apply for LMR license. It is valid for 10 years.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#142

Post by jagged-chisel »

pelotron wrote: post #133
jagged-chisel wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Mesh” doesn’t even make sense wrt ham. Aren’t hams just people broadcasting voice with amplitude modulation? Is there a data band? If so, are any hams willing to relay?

No, yes, and yes.

Honestly, thanks for correcting me and being succinct. Have an updoot.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#143

Post by bergie »

Groxx wrote: post #138
bergie wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm right now anchored at an atoll in the Tuamotus, French Polynesia. 3/10 boats anchored here have Meshtastic.

Boating seems like a pretty good fit here, yeah - adhoc and semi local, and everyone already relies on radio for stuff. And no issues with line of sight. Is there no longer-range p2p digital tech here though? It tooks to me like this would always be island-local, if even that, and probably useless while further out. Though for inland stuff like smaller lakes that's not a problem.

The traditional longer-range P2P is HF radio and maybe Winlink email on that. APRS over HF is also possible, and Reticulum would be too if hams were allowed to use encryption.

On the passage from Panama to Polynesia we had daily HF radio contact with Hawaii and California. Sometimes radio weather was pretty bad, but generally it worked out.

In practice nowadays passage communications for 99% of boats is WhatsApp over Starlink, with maybe Garmin InReach as backup.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#144

Post by mschuster91 »

m4rtink wrote: post #132
mschuster91 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that takes up valuable airtime. The denser the mesh the more airtime is wasted on the junk.

In MeshCore a concept of regions has been recently introduced - you can scope channels and messages to a specific geographic region (which is set on a repeater) and it will not propagate outside of the given region. That way local channels don't need to flood the whole mesh, same as with trying to send a message to someone or reach the management interface of a repeater you know is in a given area.

Oh I am aware of that feature.

The problem is, all repeater administrators in a region need to cooperate - and a lot of repeaters are abandoned. And it doesn't help at all if the troll is aware of regions.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#146

Post by m4rtink »

mschuster91 wrote: post #144
m4rtink wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In MeshCore a concept of regions has been recently introduced - you can scope channels and messages to a specific geographic region (which is set on a repeater) and it will not propagate outside of the given region. That way local channels don't need to flood the whole mesh, same as with trying to send a message to someone or reach the management interface of a repeater you know is in a given area.

Oh I am aware of that feature. The problem is, all repeater administrators in a region need to cooperate - and a lot of repeaters are abandoned. And it doesn't help at all if the troll is aware of regions.

In practice at this quite early stage of MeshCore development I would say that repeater need some regular maintenance (like the recent firmware update needed 1b -> 2b) so if they are abandoned, they will eventually fall out of the network.

As for trolls and regions - based on how you setup the regions a troll might need to physically travel to cause wider issues, as their traffic might no longer propagate through the whole mesh.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#147

Post by bethekidyouwant »

m4rtink wrote: post #129
bethekidyouwant wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what you are suggesting cell phones should be able to do here?

Text messages to other phones in direct range, ideally voice calling as well, using only built in software. Also (more) seamless direct data transfers. Eg. sending a photo to a friend standing next to me without it going through some Cloud on the Internet.

With which radio?

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#148

Post by apitman »

wtallis wrote: post #116
tardedmeme wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and ham radio is the international emergency mesh. CB radio isn't.

The request was for "a proper, working emergency meshing standard". Ham radio absolutely is not that . Yes, ham radios are used in emergency situations, but usually not as a mesh and certainly not as a standard.

I think GP meant that ham is a mesh in the sense that individual operators will communicate and spread information.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#149

Post by Karrot_Kream »

torginus wrote: post #140
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't. Resilience isn't additive. The more nodes you add, the more announcements and traffic you add, which congests the network further. Regular internet topologies work because of high throughput backbones.

my impression was that there are algorithms that work well (dont remember the name sorry), and they don't really keep track of the entire network per node, each node only has a heuristic idea of how to route packages both to local and faraway neighbors. This is very much like pathfinding in a video game - you know how to get to a next the next grid square, and also your region you are in knows how to get to its neigh…

> my impression was that there are algorithms that work well (dont remember the name sorry), and they don't really keep track of the entire network per node, each node only has a heuristic idea of how to route packages both to local and faraway neighbors.

That doesn't change the fact that announces and extra nodes can still degrade performance. For one, it's hard to know whether a new link is better or worse than other existing links. Link conditions can also change which is very common in the kind of mesh networks folks are putting together using LoRA on antennas.

> Also, meshes need not be composed of constantly moving and changing nodes. An example of a neighborhood of houses or radio towers, where each node is semi-reliable and doesn't really move is an absolutely valid and real world use case.

Yes these are called repeater nodes in Meshcore and are already well known. Repeaters still don't have the same QoS that fiber backbones of the usual Internet have. The reason the Internet works well is because your packets are routed from your house eventually to a backbone network that helps the packet get close to its destination, and the backbone networks themselves are very top-down statically routed affairs with high capacity and QoS.

Once all of your repeaters are connected via high QoS fiber links you end up with the Internet topology we already have today.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#150

Post by turbine401 »

rta5 wrote: post #91

I started experimenting with meshtastic in December last year, but so far it has been a really quiet network, so I'm not seeing the congestion problems the author highlights. According to meshmap there should be a node ~2 miles from my house but I don't reliably see it. I don't see the next closest at 4.3 miles either. For some reason I saw the next furthest (~8.4 miles) for a few days, but it has since disappeared.…

Have you tried MeshCore? It seems there's a lot more people on it (at least here in Europe).
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