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What Hasn’t Changed: The Internet Keeps Getting Bigger

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Re: What Hasn’t Changed: The Internet Keeps Getting Bigger

#31

Post by csel »

dave1619 wrote: post #10

Fred Wilson's specialty is with larger consumer/enterprise investments ( http://www.usv.com/investments/ ) vs Dave McClure's speciality is in smaller investments and also international. According to Dave, it seems like there's so slowing of momentum for growth with the smaller (base hits) he sees both domestically and internationally. And I appreciate his blog post that champions the consumer web. But I wonder with F…

I think what both Dave and Fred echoed is something that that everyone here came to a realization few years ago (the time for startups without any revenue model is over).

But that said, there is nothing stopping the next Instagram or the next Pinterest from becoming really successful. Both these sites (I am sure I can think of more) broke out during the very same period VC's kept claiming they are not going to fund startups without any revenue model or whose model is based on ads (or ads related).

So personally, I don't think what Fred said (or Dave) is anything to be sweating about. Just keep pushing products out, that is what I think.

Re: What Hasn’t Changed: The Internet Keeps Getting Bigger

#32

Post by jacquesm »

csel wrote: post #31
dave1619 wrote: post #10

Fred Wilson's specialty is with larger consumer/enterprise investments ( http://www.usv.com/investments/ ) vs Dave McClure's speciality is in smaller investments and also international. According to Dave, it seems like there's so slowing of momentum for growth with the smaller (base hits) he sees both domestically and internationally. And I appreciate his blog post that champions the consumer web. But I wonder with F…

I think what both Dave and Fred echoed is something that that everyone here came to a realization few years ago (the time for startups without any revenue model is over). But that said, there is nothing stopping the next Instagram or the next Pinterest from becoming really successful. Both these sites (I am sure I can think of more) broke out during the very same period VC's kept claiming they are not going to fund s…

The viewpoint of an investor is by nature skewed by their portfolio and those that they interact with. Those are all parties that have already somehow 'made it'.

The dark horses don't drop in frequency but as the size of the market increases your chances of interacting with one as an investor during the time when they are still small enough that you could get a relatively large slice of the pie for a good price are decreasing.

That's one of the genius elements in YC, they have made a focal point for such companies at the time when investment is at its cheapest. All it takes is one or two successes for this strategy to pay off wildly.

Re: What Hasn’t Changed: The Internet Keeps Getting Bigger

#33

Post by w3pm »

If it's "REALLY EASY" and "cheaper & faster" to build an internet or mobile business that can potentially gain millions of users, this begs the question, is this valuable?

Every app or service which attains a million users reduces the impact and worth of attaining a million users on the next app or service.

Where is the value today?

Re: What Hasn’t Changed: The Internet Keeps Getting Bigger

#34

Post by cmccabe »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #16

Perhaps I am mistaken however no one is calling anything dead, they are simply switching strategies. In my opinion B2B wins hands down when the product could be used equally by businesses and consumers at a minimum. When I started VisiDraft a year and a half ago, my strategy was B2B because my clientele would be using the product for work. I could as easily have structured my plan to have a consumer facing applicatio…

Apple definitely didn't start as a B2B company. They sold computers to individuals, and if businesses happened to buy, that was fine too. Apple had some limited success in the educational market in the 1980s, but PCs dominated the business market (and still do.)

Re: What Hasn’t Changed: The Internet Keeps Getting Bigger

#35

Post by cmccabe »

davemc500hats wrote: post #18
rizzom5000 wrote: post #15

Pinterest, Instagram, Groupon, Zynga, and "in some cases billions of revenue"? Unless I'm looking in the wrong places, that is a factual error. While getting hundreds of millions of users is great, it's not quite the same as getting to profitability. If you're using Zynga and Groupon as success stories, your business model might very well consist of, "looking for the next big fad and hoping to find a way to monetize…

"some" in this case was Groupon & Zynga, not Pinterest or Instagram. while perhaps not the best cases of getting to sustainable profitability, nevertheless both Groupon & Zynga did phenomenally well in customer acquisition and revenue... what they have failed at is long-term retention. regardless, the argument Fred seemed to be making was that distribution and customer acquisition is getting "harder"... this is not t…

If the number of people on the internet isn't growing (and it has pretty much plateaued in the US, at least), and there are more competitors, then yes, I would say consumer is "getting harder." Good ideas will always buck the trend, of course, but I think there is going to be some consolidation in this space.

Re: What Hasn’t Changed: The Internet Keeps Getting Bigger

#36

Post by codewright »

sbierwagen wrote: post #25
kapilkale wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it alter your opinion of YC?

I hang out with artists a lot, and they hate 9gag, mostly because it is a business based on wholescale theft of intellectual property. Just like Youtube, of course, but Youtube actually shares ad revenue with creators, while "publishing" your work on 9gag is manifestly insane.

Full-scale

Whole-sale

Pick one and only one.

Re: What Hasn’t Changed: The Internet Keeps Getting Bigger

#37

Post by davemcclure »

cmccabe wrote: post #35
davemc500hats wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"some" in this case was Groupon & Zynga, not Pinterest or Instagram. while perhaps not the best cases of getting to sustainable profitability, nevertheless both Groupon & Zynga did phenomenally well in customer acquisition and revenue... what they have failed at is long-term retention. regardless, the argument Fred seemed to be making was that distribution and customer acquisition is getting "harder"... this is not t…

If the number of people on the internet isn't growing (and it has pretty much plateaued in the US, at least), and there are more competitors, then yes, I would say consumer is "getting harder." Good ideas will always buck the trend, of course, but I think there is going to be some consolidation in this space.

check the stats for both time online & online spend -- I'm sure both are still growing; even in the US. then add in the # of young / old people on smart phones and tablets that weren't online 3-5 years ago, and you could say that even raw # users in US is also growing.

Re: What Hasn’t Changed: The Internet Keeps Getting Bigger

#38

Post by olalonde »

> it’s taken for granted you can pay online and have goods delivered to your door. While this isn’t the case yet in many big markets in Asia

Just nitpicking here but I found this comment a bit strange. eCommerce is HUGE at least in China. Taobao for example generated 3 billions US$ in sales in 24 hours recently.

Re: What Hasn’t Changed: The Internet Keeps Getting Bigger

#39

Post by marcosdumay »

olalonde wrote: post #38

> it’s taken for granted you can pay online and have goods delivered to your door. While this isn’t the case yet in many big markets in Asia Just nitpicking here but I found this comment a bit strange. eCommerce is HUGE at least in China. Taobao for example generated 3 billions US$ in sales in 24 hours recently.

Everything is huge in China. That doesn't mean that most chineese can order something online and receive it at their door.

(I don't know if they can. But your comment is a non-sequitour.)

Re: What Hasn’t Changed: The Internet Keeps Getting Bigger

#40

Post by mbesto »

davemc500hats wrote: post #18
rizzom5000 wrote: post #15

Pinterest, Instagram, Groupon, Zynga, and "in some cases billions of revenue"? Unless I'm looking in the wrong places, that is a factual error. While getting hundreds of millions of users is great, it's not quite the same as getting to profitability. If you're using Zynga and Groupon as success stories, your business model might very well consist of, "looking for the next big fad and hoping to find a way to monetize…

"some" in this case was Groupon & Zynga, not Pinterest or Instagram. while perhaps not the best cases of getting to sustainable profitability, nevertheless both Groupon & Zynga did phenomenally well in customer acquisition and revenue... what they have failed at is long-term retention. regardless, the argument Fred seemed to be making was that distribution and customer acquisition is getting "harder"... this is not t…

both Groupon & Zynga did phenomenally well in customer acquisition and revenue... what they have failed at is long-term retention.

So, in other words, a great pump and dump scheme?

You make it sound as if their business models should have changed at some point in order to achieve both. Do you believe this is genuinely possible?

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