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Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

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Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#391
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is cheaper and who will steal or rob a student of pencil and paper compared to a iPad also pencil and paper doesn’t require age verification.

It's also probably good to make sure students know how to figure using a pencil and paper because pulling a calculator out on a job site is pretty impractical.

Not sure I agree with that last point... you probably have one in your pocket already (phone app). Though I'm strongly against electronic devices as core education materials in K-6 especially.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The processes for delivering remedial classes no longer work at the scale required. UC San Diego published a detailed report of what's happening at their campus ( https://senate.ucsd.edu/media/740347/sawg-report-on-admissio... ): their remedial math placement grew from 32 students in 2020 to 921 students in 2025, 665 of whom placed into an extra-remedial course covering grade 1-8 math which had not previously been ne…

The system is working as designed. If they don’t want to provide remedial then they need some pre-admission test to weed them out. The students can try again later after maturing more or taking community college classes.

Right? That's what the source article is about, the UC faculty would like to resume using the SAT and ACT as pre-admissions tests.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#393
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people working on this aren't idiots. There are people who see massive business opportunities for enriching themselves in privatizing the education system. Some of there points are reasonable, and sometimes they are frauds. Either way, they lobby hard and have a lot of generally Republican politicians in their pockets. Also, teacher pay is terrible in comparison to the job stress and - reasonably and expected - e…

Who's working on this? I think there are some pretty obvious easy fixes, at least for California: Find a library that still has a copy of the educational plan California used back in the 1970's, and do that. At the time, we had the best schools in the country. The state is much richer and has much higher income/sales tax rates now than it did back then. I think that should more than make up for the Prop 13 funding di…

> copy [the] educational plan California used back in the 1970's

I think that would go a long way.

> more than make up for the Prop 13 funding disaster

Wrong funding disaster. The real funding disaster is Prop 98, which mandates a certain amount of K-12 spending according to "the level of funding in 1986-87, General Fund revenues, per capita personal income, and school attendance". [0]

Specifically, "[...] [T]he Guarantee is in a Test 1 for all years 2024-25 through 2026-27. This means that the funding level of the Guarantee in these years is equal to roughly 40 percent of General Fund revenues, plus local property tax revenues. Pursuant to the Proposition 98 formula, this percentage of General Fund revenues is not reduced to reflect enrollment adjustments, which further increases per pupil funding." [0]

Additionally, both property tax revenues (affected by Prop 13) and general fund revenues are used to fund the LCFF[1], which is big on "equity" and gives schools with high ESL and generally disadvantaged students significantly more funds. It also guarantees funding growth with COLA and population growth adjustments.

Finally, on top of all that mandatory funding, we're spending discretionary funds to more than double outlays on special education vs. FY18-19[0]--which is claimed to be an investment in student outcomes. And discretionary funds for professional development. And discretionary funds to pay staff 14 weeks pregnancy leave. And discretionary funds to give LCFF a nearly doubled "super COLA".

The state doesn't have a funding problem, it has a spending problem. And the result of this unchecked spending growth is that mandatory Prop 98 spending alone is now a record $127.1B vs $59B in 2013-14 and $78.5B in 2018-19[2]--despite a ~7% enrollment decline over that period[3]. Meanwhile outcomes have plummeted.

The education administration mafia has the state over a barrel. Yet somehow most Californians believe that education is underfunded, usually with a dash of "something something Prop 13". But actually the problem is closer to a resource curse. With ever-growing guaranteed slices of the budget and discretionary sweeteners up the wazoo, who needs to actually teach kids?

[0]: https://ebudget.ca.gov/2026-27/pdf/Revised/BudgetSummary/TK-...

[1]: https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/aa/lc/lcffoverview.asp

[2]: https://ebudget.ca.gov/2024-25/pdf/BudgetSummary/K-12Educati...

[3]: https://www.ppic.org/publication/californias-k-12-students/

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#394
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. Charter schools are public schools and often served by school bus routes or other public transit. Walking or cycling can also be options for some students. The real differentiating factor isn't wealth but simply giving a shit about your children. Parents have to take some minimal effort to enroll their children in a charter school and many simply don't bother.

It's not just giving a shit: it's also the capacity to act on giving a shit. I'm exhausted at the end of the day after getting the kids to bed, and I'm fortunate to be in a stable marriage, live in a large home that my wife and I own, and work a well-paying WFH job. I can only imagine how tiring it must be to not have those advantages. There are the parents doing heroics that I can hardly imagine, and they should be…

> I can only imagine how tiring it must be to not have those advantages

Yes, you can only “imagine” what it’s like for people who are less comfortable than you. But that cuts both ways. It could be that you’re also “imagining” the barriers you think exist to people accessing charter schools. In particular, I suspect you’re incorrectly assuming that people work as much as you do, just for less money.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#395
post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

"If a local district starts losing funding, then it would have to close / shrink schools, and people from outside the educational system would be allowed to establish independent (secular) charter schools within the district."

There is zero incentive for "people outside the educational system" to do this. Kids will absolutely suffer because of this plan.

The answer to this, like always, is that teachers need to be paid more.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just giving a shit: it's also the capacity to act on giving a shit. I'm exhausted at the end of the day after getting the kids to bed, and I'm fortunate to be in a stable marriage, live in a large home that my wife and I own, and work a well-paying WFH job. I can only imagine how tiring it must be to not have those advantages. There are the parents doing heroics that I can hardly imagine, and they should be…

How difficult is it? 1. give a shit 2. enroll 3. ??? 4. PROFIT!

Have you ever lived below the poverty line? In order to enroll, you’d have to know about it and manage logistics.

Working 14 hours a day so you can clothe and feed your kid doesn’t leave much time for that.

That doesn’t mean you don’t give a shit.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#398
post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

Ladies and gentlemen, the modern eugenicist. Meanwhile, an anecdote: 11th Grade: Precalculus, all A's 12th Grade: AP Calculus, C average, one D quarter (in the middle of my parents' divorce, onset of body dysmorphia/dysphoria, college entrance applications, senior research practicum) College Sophomore Year: Applied Calculus, aced, highest final score in the class Post-college self-study: Failure to advance Circumstan…

I'll assume you misread the thread. You're arguing that teaching calculus in public school is a form of eugenics.

If that's actually what you're arguing, I'd love to hear more (if only for entertainment value).

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want to get rid of "advanced" course options and push every student into the same bucket?

I'd be fine with that. It would provide an incentive to care about the bottom 75th percentile along with the spoiled rich kids

That's horrible. Smarter kids could get a better education, but they can't, because the teachers have to deal with illiterate kids that don't want to learn in the first place.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be fine with that. It would provide an incentive to care about the bottom 75th percentile along with the spoiled rich kids

That's horrible. Smarter kids could get a better education, but they can't, because the teachers have to deal with illiterate kids that don't want to learn in the first place.

Maybe if we tried to educate all our kids instead of just the rich ones they wouldn't be illiterate
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