Live data from Hacker News

I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

jonaharagon.com

111–120 of 152 posts

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#111
post #83
post #30

IMHO this article misses a couple really important points. First, if the mesh can use Internet or other transports then it will, and it will be built out in a way where these become a necessity. If all you want is a silly new way to text your friends, then something like reticulum will be ok. But if you want a serious solution for emergency response and free communication -- free as in "no one can stop me or control…

The meshcore software, and the common hardware being used, are both comically weak for anything that approaches usage at scale, especially in an emergency situation. The range is extremely limited, and the throughput gets really bad if your packets have to travel more than a few hops. These two factors alone combine to write this off as nothing more than a toy pretty much from the start. There are already unlicensed…

Huge +1 here! Work out scenario planning of Meshtastic/Meshcore with one of the GPT's and they top out at like ~100k users and like 10msg/sec or something ludicrously low.

At something like $100/node and 5000 nodes in a major metro (eg: Dallas) it's like a $500k investment and you're maxed out at low data rates and saturated topology.

That's 5k nodes in a (generous) 5 million population and ~500 square mile area. More like 9M people and 9000 square miles. (I checked, and that's "extended metroplex", but reasonable: Decatur to Cleburne, Weatherford to Kaufman).

At 5k nodes saturating an area, it's basically a rich persons toy very well suitable to remote or low-density areas, but NEVER for 1:1 saturation deployment in any sort of high density area.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#113
post #56

I’ve spent my entire career in telco and networking and loved the rise of Wi-Fi (which we used spectacularly over long distances when the spectrum was clear to show off my mates in 3G/microwave backhaul), and have been keeping up with LoRA and related stuff (got a few HelTec boards), but all the recent meshtastic/core/etc. stuff feels a bit like the early wardriving community (and CB radio): fun, full of ideas, but w…

I had a friend who worked in telco as well, and he told me the reason why IP-based networking solutions will never completely replace earlier stuff like GSM is that the QoS algorithms used work extremely well in practice (which mesh networks prove), their behavior is completely nondeterministic, and tends to have really bad failure cases in overload, or certain nodes in the network failing.

Which means in SHTF situations (such as one when most people imagine this would be useful), these things tend to fail the most.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#114
post #3

> To be perfectly upfront with you, this post will be glossing over many Meshtastic and MeshCore features, because I feel they are both non-serious solutions compared to Reticulum for reasons I will explain later on in this post. Yeah, that's the general feel I get every time I poke into Mesh*. Neat radio tech, fun toy to find other nearby nerds, instantly-obvious problems that are fatal to growing beyond being that…

I think meshes do work extremely well in practice, and are quite resilient with regards to errors, and load balancing, and they get better as you add more nodes.

I think it's perfectly feasible for a small neighborhood of regular people to have internet shared over a wireless mesh network, yielding experience comparable to standard approaches.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#115

I am an happy user of Meshstastic since more than one year (I have two active nodes and a third one is in the making). I am living in hilly countryside and the difficult that I have experienced is about reaching other nodes: with the standard antenna, I can barely connect with nodes in a 500 meters range, with a better antenna (coaxial collinear is the best IMHO) I can reach more than 10km. I don't think the Meshstat…

None of MeshCore, Meshtastic or Reticulum will scale well, especially not on top of a heavily constrained radio technology like LoRa. Flooding is inefficient for obvious reasons, AODV-esque routing (which MeshCore tries to do for DMs and Reticulum tries to do in general) is prone to almost-immediate path failure on unstable underlying transports, and the hidden node problem always bites on haphazard/unplanned mesh ra…

Any promising mesh networks, radio networks or routing protocols worth looking into?

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#116
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CB stands for Citizen's Band, and was the moniker back in the Usenet days. Yes, I know I am dating myself here.

Yes, and ham radio is the international emergency mesh. CB radio isn't.

The request was for "a proper, working emergency meshing standard". Ham radio absolutely is not that. Yes, ham radios are used in emergency situations, but usually not as a mesh and certainly not as a standard.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#117

I am an happy user of Meshstastic since more than one year (I have two active nodes and a third one is in the making). I am living in hilly countryside and the difficult that I have experienced is about reaching other nodes: with the standard antenna, I can barely connect with nodes in a 500 meters range, with a better antenna (coaxial collinear is the best IMHO) I can reach more than 10km. I don't think the Meshstat…

None of MeshCore, Meshtastic or Reticulum will scale well, especially not on top of a heavily constrained radio technology like LoRa. Flooding is inefficient for obvious reasons, AODV-esque routing (which MeshCore tries to do for DMs and Reticulum tries to do in general) is prone to almost-immediate path failure on unstable underlying transports, and the hidden node problem always bites on haphazard/unplanned mesh ra…

Agree! And we need also to consider that a mesh protocol for Meshtatic/Meshcore should support mobility and have to run in a low power devices

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#118
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone you meet on a mesh is a real breathing nerd, who due to proximity has a lot in common with you. They are not trying to influence you or sell you anything I wish... the Hamburg Meshcore mesh has some dumbass spammer spamming far-right youtube videos in the public channel for example. And from what I hear, Meshtastic also has issues with this kind of idiots.

Start spamming far-left YouTube videos to the public channel at the same time, according to the general theory of nutball political physics the two should cancel each other out

The problem is that takes up valuable airtime. The denser the mesh the more airtime is wasted on the junk.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#119

I got into it too back in 2012. Frankly it’s not a very interesting space unless you’re trying to circumvent nation wide internet shutdowns because for everything else encrypted chat channels serve the same purpose and everyone is doing it (WhatsApp, signal, telegram etc)

I have some really bad news for you, mate.

What is it?

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and ham radio is the international emergency mesh. CB radio isn't.

The request was for "a proper, working emergency meshing standard". Ham radio absolutely is not that . Yes, ham radios are used in emergency situations, but usually not as a mesh and certainly not as a standard.

“Mesh” doesn’t even make sense wrt ham. Aren’t hams just people broadcasting voice with amplitude modulation? Is there a data band? If so, are any hams willing to relay?
Post reply on HN