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Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

latimes.com

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Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#61

Post by CalRobert »

StateflowsLabs wrote: post #2

"The surge in math deficiencies after dropping the SAT highlights a systemic issue: grade inflation. Without a standardized baseline like the SAT/ACT, a 4.0 GPA from a high school with relaxed standards looks identical to a 4.0 from a highly rigorous one. Paradoxically, removing test requirements harms underprivileged students the most. Preparing for the SAT requires a book and an internet connection. In contrast, bu…

I wasn't underprivileged but I did go to a terrible evangelical high school that had no honors or AP classes (AP bio at a place teaching creationism would've been something else...) and I think I only got in to a decent college on the strength of my SAT and ACT scores. My grades were OK (except in bio, where I refused to acknowledge young Earth creationism) but not amazing.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#62

Post by mlsu »

kleiba2 wrote: post #28

I used to teach high school math. There was a big push for doing everything digitally. And admittedly, for some topics the use of technology in the classroom or at home can really be a benefit, for instance visualizations or interactive exercises. But having a digital device in class was the number one cause of distraction every time. For a lot of things, good old blackboards are just fine as are pen + paper exercise…

It’s definitely actively bad to involve a device in the vast majority of education. And, it’s a purely selfish thing by tech companies to insert themselves into education.

A student should not see a computer until college or vocational school unless they are taking e.g a high school programming or electronics class.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#63

Post by ceejayoz »

Aarostotle wrote: post #50
ceejayoz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professional athletes are like people who get 1600s on the SAT; a bit of an outlier.

That's exactly the point. Top schools are looking for outlier intellectual talent, but the egalitarian approach (high school grade inflation plus weakening of standardized testing) smooths the differences and makes it harder for them to admit the right people. The visible result has been the weakening of these institutions. Do also observe that this is recursive — as these institutions have lowered their standards ov…

> Top schools are looking for outlier intellectual talent…

Eh, somewhat. They want some of those outliers hobnobbing with the legacies.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#64

Post by pgh »

The lack of any subject level standardised US high school certification to prove skill-level for matriculation still boggles my mind. I realise this is fundamentally a curriculum issue, as it’s set at a local level. There’s AP, but that’s not universally available.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#65

Post by travisgriggs »

It’s ok. In the future, no one will do math. Mathematicians will be directors, with a team of math bots that they administer and direct. Instead of being managed, they will become the managers of mathematic autonomons. Universities need to get with the program.

/s

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#66

Post by delusional »

john_strinlai wrote: post #3

> “We now observe preparation gaps so severe that instructors must reteach middle-school mathematics while simultaneously teaching the material students need for sciences, engineering, economics, and other quantitatively demanding fields,” they warned. i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math. i teach. my courses have prerequisites. if a student somehow makes it into…

Because the like teaching and believe in giving their students/customers the best possible education?

I get not wanting to waste the time of the better students, but if too many student are behind, whose time are you really wasting?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#67

Post by declan_roberts »

ceejayoz wrote: post #4
john_strinlai wrote: post #3

> “We now observe preparation gaps so severe that instructors must reteach middle-school mathematics while simultaneously teaching the material students need for sciences, engineering, economics, and other quantitatively demanding fields,” they warned. i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math. i teach. my courses have prerequisites. if a student somehow makes it into…

Professors who fail large swathes of their classes get in trouble.

The types of students who are entering college needing dramatic remedial math are not the ones you want to fail in large numbers.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#68

Post by ryandrake »

hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

Measuring (and funding) schools based on student outcome is fraught because a student's performance / preparedness for the "next level" is not entirely a function of the school. There are other significant parameters, including parental upbringing, home life stability, neighborhood safety, friends, hunger/nutrition, various trauma and abuse, the list goes on. I'm sure it's been studied, but I'd bet "school quality" is not even close to number 1 on the list of predictors of educational outcome.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#69

Post by ptek »

irishcoffee wrote: post #55
collabs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am thinking why not use the iPad simply as a letter pad with infinite pages? the new iPad with the new iPad pencil can do that and I am sure with the right software you can write, erase, rewrite as much as you want? What am I missing?

You can just use a pencil and paper, and it's a lot cheaper?

Yes it is cheaper and who will steal or rob a student of pencil and paper compared to a iPad also pencil and paper doesn’t require age verification.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#70

Post by chaostheory »

lokar wrote: post #36
StateflowsLabs wrote: post #2

"The surge in math deficiencies after dropping the SAT highlights a systemic issue: grade inflation. Without a standardized baseline like the SAT/ACT, a 4.0 GPA from a high school with relaxed standards looks identical to a 4.0 from a highly rigorous one. Paradoxically, removing test requirements harms underprivileged students the most. Preparing for the SAT requires a book and an internet connection. In contrast, bu…

The problem is as never the tests. It was pretending that the difference between a 600 and 625 (or whatever) really predicted anything. It was the silly idea that with tests you could produce a fair ordering of students based on potential to succeed.

As imperfect standardized tests are, they are still more fair and less biased than using arbitrary judgement on extra curriculars
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