Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 925 posts

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#21

Post by simonw »

john_strinlai wrote: post #3

> “We now observe preparation gaps so severe that instructors must reteach middle-school mathematics while simultaneously teaching the material students need for sciences, engineering, economics, and other quantitatively demanding fields,” they warned. i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math. i teach. my courses have prerequisites. if a student somehow makes it into…

Have you observed a reduction in the number of students who match those pre-requisites over time?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#22

Post by ceejayoz »

valleyer wrote: post #16
ceejayoz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Preparing for the SAT requires a book and an internet connection. Sports frequently just requires a ball or a place to run. In both scenarios, you can still purchase better equipment/training. There are very expensive, effective SAT prep options out there for the wealthy.

Your analogy works against you, given that tons of professional athletes come from poverty.

Professional athletes are like people who get 1600s on the SAT; a bit of an outlier.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#23

Post by 9dev »

Shank wrote: post #10
dmoy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like the real underlying problem then

It's kind of like how if you owe the bank $1000, you have a problem, but if you owe a bank $100M, they have a problem. You just can't reasonably ignore a huge portion of the class as a professor without a serious amount of documentation, and proof that you've tried to escalate and solve the issue. Ultimately, people are paying for these courses, and it's probably better to teach something rather than nothing.

Sounds like people are paying for these courses is part of the actual problem, then? Students should not have any kind of entitlement whatsoever to pass classes other than merit.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#25

Post by ceejayoz »

valleyer wrote: post #19
ceejayoz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the public believe that we should push for equal outcomes ("equity") over equal opportunity (usually referred to as simply "equality") This is the direct inverse of what's actually asserted by people talking about equity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_equity Providing a hearing aid to someone hard of hearing so they can learn is equity. Their outcomes aren't guaranteed; an obstacle to achieving them is…

From your link: > Equity is equality of outcome for all subgroups in society.

Also from my link:

> factors specific to one's personal conditions should not interfere with the potential of academic success

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#27

Post by 1970-01-01 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #4
john_strinlai wrote: post #3

> “We now observe preparation gaps so severe that instructors must reteach middle-school mathematics while simultaneously teaching the material students need for sciences, engineering, economics, and other quantitatively demanding fields,” they warned. i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math. i teach. my courses have prerequisites. if a student somehow makes it into…

Professors who fail large swathes of their classes get in trouble.

That is the entire problem in a nutshell. You cannot reject more than one or two students in a year or the school will reject you.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#28

Post by kleiba2 »

I used to teach high school math. There was a big push for doing everything digitally. And admittedly, for some topics the use of technology in the classroom or at home can really be a benefit, for instance visualizations or interactive exercises. But having a digital device in class was the number one cause of distraction every time.

For a lot of things, good old blackboards are just fine as are pen + paper exercises. Maybe even for most high school math. That was frowned upon though by the higher ranks. If I was evaluated as a teacher and didn't include some iPad shenanigans in the class that I was getting audited for, I would have been in trouble. How behind the times!

I got along really well with most of my teenage students, it was a lot of fun interacting with them. But the politics behind it all got too annoying. Also, you're under very tight control on what you teach and how, that was super annoying. So I stopped teaching a few years ago and never looked back.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#29

Post by AlanYx »

ceejayoz wrote: post #4
john_strinlai wrote: post #3

> “We now observe preparation gaps so severe that instructors must reteach middle-school mathematics while simultaneously teaching the material students need for sciences, engineering, economics, and other quantitatively demanding fields,” they warned. i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math. i teach. my courses have prerequisites. if a student somehow makes it into…

Professors who fail large swathes of their classes get in trouble.

That's presumably why so many professors are banding together for this letter. 600 professors is a fairly significant chunk of the faculty.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#30

Post by ceejayoz »

JCTheDenthog wrote: post #20
ceejayoz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the public believe that we should push for equal outcomes ("equity") over equal opportunity (usually referred to as simply "equality") This is the direct inverse of what's actually asserted by people talking about equity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_equity Providing a hearing aid to someone hard of hearing so they can learn is equity. Their outcomes aren't guaranteed; an obstacle to achieving them is…

>This is the direct inverse of what's actually asserted by people talking about equity. From the wiki article you linked: >Equity is equality of outcome for all subgroups in society. Equity proponents believe that some are at a larger disadvantage than others and aims to compensate for this to ensure that everyone can attain the same lifestyle.

Note: everyone can, not everyone will.

That's opportunity, not a guarantee. Yes?

Post reply on HN