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Can we have the day off?

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Re: Can we have the day off?

#661

Post by CalRobert »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #251
Ancalagon wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is society better off? Honest question, you used to be able to support a family of four with a single 9-5.

And that support was a family of 4-6 in a 1200 sq ft house, eating out <6x a year, vacations were picnics at the local beach, one car that you did your own maintenance on, one tv, only one set of good clothes (your Sunday outfit), et cetera. Most places in the US can still support a family at that same level of expenditure on an average income.

In many cases it's illegal or commercially unviable to build said 1200 sqft house.

It's kinda funny that this is considered small, though. 110-120 sqm is perfectly normal for a family of 4 where I live, and in many cases they do it with 1 or 0 cars. But I live somewhere that isn't horribly designed (the Netherlands)

Re: Can we have the day off?

#662

Post by mschuster91 »

matchbok3 wrote: post #91
mschuster91 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of those things also resulted in the massive increase in the quality of life for everyone. Yes, everyone has a modern smartphone now. Cool, thanks. But last time I checked, can't pay my rent with a smartphone when I'm out of a job. > Nobody will suggest we ban cars and go back to horse and buggies so cowboys can have jobs. Maybe not that, but have you looked at sustainable farming movements? In farming, there i…

Everything you say is correct but it comes with a massive decrease in quality of life for the average person. Food will be 5x the cost, with less variety. Nobody wants to till the land anymore. Just like people 100 years ago didn't want to be hunters. Are you willing to part with your smartphone and computer? I would bet not.

> Food will be 5x the cost, with less variety.

Highly disagree. If anything we'll see more variety because mass produced food has settled on a very limited set of breeds (both for plants and animals) to keep timing and yield consistent.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#663

Post by CalRobert »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #306
esikich wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's impossible to argue we are better off. This comment is so detached from reality it's almost offensive. Education is unaffordable, health care is unaffordable, homes are unaffordable, the rich have gotten massively richer, the middle class has been gutted, suicides are up, birth rates are down... I could go on and on. It's gotten better for the 1% but the rest of us are being boiled like frogs. To the poi…

Median income is vastly higher. Did you live before ~1990? Standard of living was a lot lower back then, it’s pretty apparent.

How was the standard of living lower?

Mostly what I can think of is access to medical treatments developed in the last few decades. Comforts like A/C are more widespread now (but they were less necessary when we were under 400 ppm CO2).

Re: Can we have the day off?

#664

Post by dannersy »

munksbeer wrote: post #633
dannersy wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is honestly offensive to me that this isn't plainly obvious to everyone. AI has never, ever, and never will be, about making life better for the average human. It has always been, and always will be, about wealth consolidation and control. Does anyone think it is coincidence that now local models are more useful the market has suddenly made it massively more expensive to buy your own hardware? Companies are just g…

>AI has never, ever, and never will be, about making life better for the average human. You don't know that. And this same line could be said about any technology that results in accruing of capital, but actually does end up making life better for the average human. What if AI at AlphaFold finds a cure for Alzheimer's disease? What if it finds a way to actually perfect fusion? You can't tell me we don't live better l…

I am okay with Alzheimer's not being cured if it means we are not bending over backwards to welcome a billionaire overlord class. I don't think Altman or Amodei give a fuck about Alzheimer's unless a cure gives them a reason to obtain more investments. You could say that is the system working, but as a member of said system, it feels pretty shit.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#665

Post by account42 »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #322
shimman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a joke? Income inequality is at it's highest (even worse than the gilded age), deaths of despair are at their highest as well, people can't afford childcare (a years worth of childcare costs more than college), people are losing access to health insurance en masse; but we're suppose to think society is truly better off? What brand of edibles do you have there 'bud? I'd like to fly into that realm of alternate…

When I was a kid “child care” was either your grandparents or the neighborhood kid watching 6 screaming toddlers at once. I’m pretty sure that doesn’t cost more than college today :). Our standards have just risen massively.

Do you really think that dropping of your kids at a flu factory is a higher standard than having caring relatives (often even one of the parents themselves) available to give them a good childhood?

Re: Can we have the day off?

#667

Post by jgilias »

throwaway63467 wrote: post #601
cattown wrote: post #33

This article is kind of playful, but I think there’s a serious point here that’s not discussed enough. We’re being asked to usher in huge productivity gains by introducing AI to our workflows, but we’re not asking how does it help us? Not a lot of us stand to directly gain from our employers becoming more productive. I know everybody is afraid of getting fired and replaced with AI or whatever right now. But we should…

It’s been like that for a while, economic gains went to a small fraction of people, before software developers were among those that were on the winning side, now they’re on the losing side. Think about how much the US economy is growing right now and who really profits from that growth. My guess is that 90 % of the growth goes to 10 % of people, with AI maybe 99 % might go to the 1 %. Or who do you think will gain f…

We’re going to be fine. I see daily what non-engineers that build stuff with AI come up with.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#668

Post by keybored »

bbor wrote: post #538
xnx wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we should be seriously asking in our next all hands meetings if 10x’ing our productivity can get us some days off. Pretty sure if you ask this that they'll give you all your days off.

Standing up for yourself and your peers is a virtue, not a weakness. Yes, it’s easy to crack down on individual dissent — but only if you stay quiet.

This is HN, where labor unions are considered nice-in-theory-evil-in-practice while we with eyes with open resign ourselves to doing nothing.

Your livelihood has a price (duh, your wage). But making cynical remarks about how stupid it is to want things to improve? Priceless.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#669

Post by aranelsurion »

mattlondon wrote: post #514
Gigachad wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the FIRE movement is a response to how absurd this is, but it feels kind of wrong that you have to front load all of the saving for your whole life in the first 30 years. I'd love to work 3 days a week now and be paid a livable amount, rather than grind 5 days a week, getting paid more than I need so I can retire fast. But tech companies don't want you for 3 days a week, its 5 or nothing for most of them.

Well many places allow you to do 80% time (at least in the UK)... but you get 80% pay, 80% bonus, 80% holiday accrual etc too. And from experience it seems that 80% people need to try damn hard to actually keep it at 80% and not get sucked into doing more to "keep up".

IDK about UK but in Germany it’s the law that employees can request 80% work at 80% pay and can’t be denied except for significant operational reasons and such.

As you said, it can be a double edged sword to be the 80% worker in the otherwise 100% team.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#670

Post by Peaches4Rent »

jgilias wrote: post #667
throwaway63467 wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s been like that for a while, economic gains went to a small fraction of people, before software developers were among those that were on the winning side, now they’re on the losing side. Think about how much the US economy is growing right now and who really profits from that growth. My guess is that 90 % of the growth goes to 10 % of people, with AI maybe 99 % might go to the 1 %. Or who do you think will gain f…

We’re going to be fine. I see daily what non-engineers that build stuff with AI come up with.

Not the point.

If you don't get paid more for being more productive, someone else is getting richer. That means they buy the houses in your neighborhood, which means you can't buy it because they outbid you

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