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I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

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Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#61

Post by Thomashuet »

smlacy wrote: post #30

IMHO this article misses a couple really important points. First, if the mesh can use Internet or other transports then it will, and it will be built out in a way where these become a necessity. If all you want is a silly new way to text your friends, then something like reticulum will be ok. But if you want a serious solution for emergency response and free communication -- free as in "no one can stop me or control…

> the author also misses an important piece of functionality of meshcore: If I lose power, the mesh still works.

Isn't it the case with Meshtastic and Reticulum too? It feels like it should be part of the definition of mesh network.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#62

Post by tardedmeme »

rcarmo wrote: post #56

I’ve spent my entire career in telco and networking and loved the rise of Wi-Fi (which we used spectacularly over long distances when the spectrum was clear to show off my mates in 3G/microwave backhaul), and have been keeping up with LoRA and related stuff (got a few HelTec boards), but all the recent meshtastic/core/etc. stuff feels a bit like the early wardriving community (and CB radio): fun, full of ideas, but w…

I believe it's called ham radio

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#63

Post by worldsayshi »

smlacy wrote: post #30

IMHO this article misses a couple really important points. First, if the mesh can use Internet or other transports then it will, and it will be built out in a way where these become a necessity. If all you want is a silly new way to text your friends, then something like reticulum will be ok. But if you want a serious solution for emergency response and free communication -- free as in "no one can stop me or control…

> no one can stop me or control what is said no matter what

Can't they just triangulate the nodes and hack or unplug them? And put whoever objects into prison?

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#64

Post by rcarmo »

tardedmeme wrote: post #62
rcarmo wrote: post #56

I’ve spent my entire career in telco and networking and loved the rise of Wi-Fi (which we used spectacularly over long distances when the spectrum was clear to show off my mates in 3G/microwave backhaul), and have been keeping up with LoRA and related stuff (got a few HelTec boards), but all the recent meshtastic/core/etc. stuff feels a bit like the early wardriving community (and CB radio): fun, full of ideas, but w…

I believe it's called ham radio

CB stands for Citizen's Band, and was the moniker back in the Usenet days. Yes, I know I am dating myself here.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#65

Post by m4rtink »

transcriptase wrote: post #15

Every time I get excited about one of these techs I end up finding it has approx the same range as a late 90s cordless phone unless you live on the Nevada salt flats, and a data rate that could probably be beat out by Morse code on a GMRS radio. Sadly I live in the opposite of that terrain with approx the same population density. Regardless I have a few LILYGO Meshtastic Esp32 boards that are neat to play around with…

I have a very different experience - here in Europe with 868 MHz MeshCore you get good singnal from a repeater through one or two city blocks with non ideal antenna placement.

With reasonable line of sight tens of kilometers & much more is doable. There are some repeaters on mountains that connect bigger regional meshes with packets going >100 km regularly.

https://mapa.meshcore.cz/

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#66

Post by raffael_de »

RRRA wrote: post #25
raffael_de wrote: post #6

This has been on here a couple of times the past few days or weeks. Finally pulled the trigger and bought a Seeed Studio Wio Tracker L1 Pro for MeshCore. I find the idea of a para-internet just fast enough for text based monomedia content highly appealing. Probably a mix of nostalgia but also realism - my thinking is that a network too slow for pictures / audio / video would elegantly avoid problems like spam and (il…

In Montréal we've rebooted Réseau Libre which used to be a Wi-Fi mesh experiment 15+ years ago. It's a fun experiment, but in a way feels like a step backward for me. Meshtastic and Meshcore are just that, messaging, but that makes it the standardized killer app. On the other side you have reticulum which allows decoupling from the LoRa low bandwidth only radios, seems to do a lot of neat stuff, but if we're reinvent…

I have difficulty following you.

> a Wi-Fi mesh experiment 15+ years ago. It's a fun experiment, but in a way feels like a step backward for me.

Why? WiFi technology is cheap and available. Seems like a great basis for a mesh.

> Meshtastic and Meshcore are just that, messaging, but that makes it the standardized killer app.

Why "just"? All the internet protocols are also just messaging at the end of the day - request: A sends message to B, response: B sends message to A.

> On the other side you have reticulum which allows decoupling from the LoRa low bandwidth only radios, seems to do a lot of neat stuff

I'm not familiar with Reticulum (neither with Mesh* in any meaningful way) - do you mean to say that Reticulum is more flexible regarding the radio technology - as in: no need to by specific devices like for Meshcore?

> I'm starting to feel this is a fun activity, but realistically copium for a world that is very sadly centralizing everything.

Can't say I disagree, sadly.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#67

Post by m4rtink »

One aspect of MeshCore and similar technologies I really like is that the end user devices can directly communicate with each other seamlessly - if you have 2 MeshCore companions nearby, they can just send messages directly, no need for a repeater.

In comparison 2 modern smartphones with no WiFi AP or no cell coverage can't really use any of the usual messaging (or even data transfer) services to communicate directly. Yeah, there are some ways to connect via bluetooth or a mobile wifi hotspot, but it all looks like very begrudgingly added and not well supported for easy use by mainstream mobile OS and hardware companies.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#68

Post by mytailorisrich »

worldsayshi wrote: post #63
smlacy wrote: post #30

IMHO this article misses a couple really important points. First, if the mesh can use Internet or other transports then it will, and it will be built out in a way where these become a necessity. If all you want is a silly new way to text your friends, then something like reticulum will be ok. But if you want a serious solution for emergency response and free communication -- free as in "no one can stop me or control…

> no one can stop me or control what is said no matter what Can't they just triangulate the nodes and hack or unplug them? And put whoever objects into prison?

Meshtastic/core are very easy to disrupt or jam, anyway.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#69

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

bergie wrote: post #58
londons_explore wrote: post #49

Please someone design a worldwide mesh network. Mix of wireless and wired links. Like the internet, but self-configuring and peer to peer. Yes, there are lots of technical and social challenges, but I don't believe they are unsolvable.

Isn't that exactly the idea of Reticulum? http://reticulum.network/manual/whatis.html

The author seems to prefer Reticulum.

Re: I'm Getting into Mesh Networks (Meshtastic, MeshCore, and Reticulum)

#70

Post by Doman »

FabCH wrote: post #46

Am I the only one who thinks MeshCore shouldn’t be called „off grid“? Unlike Meshtastic and Reticulum, the need for router nodes is built into the protocol itself in MeshCore. And while nodes are cheap and amateurs can put them up, that is still a grid that has to exist for your MeshCore client to be useful…

You totally can use Meshcore without repeater, and companions can be used like routers. This functionality can be enabled any time using one checkbox in app. It switches the radios to slightly different frequency and enables repeat mode in personal nodes, this gives you one small network. No repeater needed. And in this mode you don't clutter "main" mesh with your local mesh.

The main difference between Meshcore and Meshtastic is how telemetry is handled. In Meshcore to get telemetry the other party needs to request it, whereas in Meshtastic telemetry is sent in flood mode in configured intervals. That's why Meshtastic is better suited for (A)TAK [1]. But because Meshtastic sends telemetry anyway there is less and less airtime for chat messages, and it gets to the point where you can't talk to people. For small groups this is fine, for bigger groups/meshes this is no bueno.

[1] https://tak.gov/ - (A) stands for Android app.

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