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Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

theguardian.com

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Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#361
post #219
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Backlogs can evaporate. Can you imagine anyone taking delivery of a newly built 737 in 10 years? 7 years? Theoretically, that's part of the backlog.

> Can you imagine anyone taking delivery of a newly built 737 in 10 years? ..yes? Companies are still placing orders, despite knowing how long the backlog is. I also expect the 737s will still be sold in 20+ years time, much less 7-10.

747s were in commercial production for 54 years (1970 to 2023).

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#362
post #307
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparable aircraft is the more modern E-7 Wedgetail, which has many features that are superior for Canada's use case (notably including range and NORAD integration). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E-7_Wedgetail Canada has unfortunately been in conflict with Boeing since before either of Trump's terms, originally triggered by Boeing's trade complaints regarding Bombardier's government subsidies.

is norad integration actually important? norad might not exist in 5-10 years

Canada has little used for airborne early warning outside of NORAD; the country has little independent air defense, and has not performed any foreign air superiority missions since the Cold Warz

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past countries would buy American equipment even if it wasn’t the best fit because that would make you essentially an American ally. Being part of the U.S. ecosystem was valuable. Unfortunately, over the last 1.5 years, the political value proposition has turned by 180 degrees. - Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. But the U.S. has been tearing ag…

> Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. How much more is the US supposed to do in Ukraine beyond the $60-70 billion in weapons and supplies? Do we need to actually go to war with Russia?

It is supposed to deliver arms European countries literally paid for.

Second, USA should not negotiate for Russia nor help them. They are doing both.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past countries would buy American equipment even if it wasn’t the best fit because that would make you essentially an American ally. Being part of the U.S. ecosystem was valuable. Unfortunately, over the last 1.5 years, the political value proposition has turned by 180 degrees. - Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. But the U.S. has been tearing ag…

So I don't think 'buying US gear made you an ally' - it was just part of the package, and in some cases, the US would 'require allies' to buy. The US Ambassador to Canada is openly threatening Carney right now with some procurement things - the 'Big One' is the F35. This is Can PM Carney playing a decent card, and biding for time until the midterms, and then waiting out the 'lame duck' period. 'Border State Republica…

Sorry, but I also think you are complacent. This is generational destruction of reputation.

As a Canadian, we regularly talk about "fuck American companies" in a way we never did. I still actively avoid buying anything from USA in grocery stores. City of Toronto is spinning up a nonprofit grocery store pilot, and they sure as hell are going to be trying not to stock USA goods -- the mayor herself passed an anti-USA procurement bylaw last year. Related: I just helped run a weekly community speaker series[1], where we had 60 ppl (many public servants) signed up to hear a presentation on a supply chain app to help people avoid American products.

And just 30 min ago, coming home at 1am, I was talking to the service guy for my city's bikeshare program. He mentioned new bike models were coming. He was like "fuck Lyft" and I said "I don't trust American companies anymore" and he agreed (Lyft acquired the Montreal bikeshare company we used to deal with). A friend who used to work for Deloitte is actively working to convince city officials to sever the bikeshare contract, and diversify the network for similar reasons.

PRAGMATIC anti-americanism is literally a new hobby for a sizable cohort of the citizenry. It's the only rational choice, and many perceive it as literally a matter of sovereign survival.

[1]: https://guild.host/events/from-tariffs-to-transparency-x69sg...

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#365
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. I'm happy you're willing to recognize our fucking empire for what it is

Oh I get downvoted all the time for telling people about the american vassal states on HN. People, especially those living in these vassal states, seem to take offense to hearing that reality.

Former vassal states, thanks to Trump.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do we need to actually go to war with Russia? Yes. That's what everyone signed up to [0] when Ukraine gave up its Soviet-era nukes. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Great, more dead boys for nothing. As a Canadian, I think we've sacrificed enough generations for European brother wars. Given retrospect, wouldn't a land deal have been better than half a million dead? Wouldn't walking away from your house, maybe with a reparations package, be better than it being blown up by drones and your family killed? I don't think we need to go to war. We need to find a way to deal with Russia…

> "We need to find a way to deal with Russia with humanity instead of treating them like some boomer-era cold war bogeyman."

Are you even aware of what has been going on in Ukraine for the last 4 years, and in Crimea for the last 12?

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#367
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of insane they trusted us to begin with. Why?

Why trust anyone? Really what stops a Trump from getting elected anywhere else? The citizens seem smarter or less bigoted? Are you sure that will always be the case given the agitprop in every form of media and internet communication in every language on earth?

Trump can be voted in everywhere, but american constitution makes curruption effectively legal, president effectively lawless and provides no balance to unchecked presidential power. Money in politics are speech, so just unlimited, so any person even having change to be president have to do what Epstein class like.

And it is constitution itself. America had lawd trying to deal with above and supreme court gutted them.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#368
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of insane they trusted us to begin with. Why?

Because Trump is a new, and (hopefully!) a one time phenomenon. He is unique in that he seems to have absolute control over the Republican base which makes all internal party checks fail. The rest is provided by a hyper polarized media landscape and a conservative supreme court majority that seems to be open to radical upheavals. The combination of all three has rendered the constitutional safe guards ineffective. In…

The problem is that it isn't just an "edge case" in the constitution - the whole thing is fundamentally flawed from the very beginning. The US isn't going to be trustworthy until it manages to reshape itself into a proper democracy with functional checks and balances.

Considering the right-wing politicians are trying to turn the country into a theocratic nationalistic dictatorship and the "left-wing" politicians are content with getting votes by nothing more than not being right-wing and collecting corporate bribes: good luck with that.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#369
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel seems trustworthy in the sense that their priorities and aims are abundantly clear to everyone. People are pissed about Israel for Iran right now, but, I mean, there is a reason why they are attacking Iran right now and not Egypt or Turkey. You go about and poke the bear like Iran has done for decades with Israel, you get these outcomes. Egypt tried to poke the bear but that was decades ago and they've since l…

Hey that's up to you. I will never vote for a person who supports Israel. Our parents may have been retarded but we don't have to be. I just see a state devoted to slaughtering as many people as they can. Iran looks like a saint compared to them.

I mean, you dont know much about Iran, I guess. Like, it is a victim in this was and Israel is apartheid state.

None of that makes Iran better, not even now as they still execute daily. And are extremely harsh to own minorities. Oh, and to whole one gender.

Iran looks like saint when you ignore Iran actions. And again, yes, the war was bad decision.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past countries would buy American equipment even if it wasn’t the best fit because that would make you essentially an American ally. Being part of the U.S. ecosystem was valuable. Unfortunately, over the last 1.5 years, the political value proposition has turned by 180 degrees. - Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. But the U.S. has been tearing ag…

I am getting the feeling that Americans don't understand that words have meaning. Trump insulting, threatening and bullying everones is supposed to be one big joke. But we are talking about sovereign states here that have been around for centuries- they are neither amused nor cowed.

They don’t seem to get that Trump while a huge problem for us is a symptom of the actual problem, which is “all the conditions that put Trump in the White House will still exist when Trump is no longer in the White House”.

Simply put, they did it twice, who’s to say Trump 2.0 won’t be worse.

This whole “Democrats will take the house and it’s back to normal” attitude they have when it applies to foreign politics is naïve, oh we’ll continue to trade and we may still buy some military stuff and so on but that’s simply because the US is so large and integrated that decoupling isn’t quick or entirely necessary/possible immediately.

The paths pretty clear at this point, it’s just early enough that it hasn’t become widely obvious that the existing world order since post WWII is gone.

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