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Can we have the day off?

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Re: Can we have the day off?

#221

Post by paulhebert »

cattown wrote: post #33

This article is kind of playful, but I think there’s a serious point here that’s not discussed enough. We’re being asked to usher in huge productivity gains by introducing AI to our workflows, but we’re not asking how does it help us? Not a lot of us stand to directly gain from our employers becoming more productive. I know everybody is afraid of getting fired and replaced with AI or whatever right now. But we should…

Right, the AI companies don’t even try to pretend it’s good for the average person.

The message could be “we’ll all do more by working less.” Instead it’s, “some people will lose their jobs while everyone else works the same amount or more”

Re: Can we have the day off?

#222

Post by philip1209 »

Farm, and you won't have to scavenge for food.

Get a tractor, and spend less time farming.

The factory will save time making tractors, so everybody can have one.

Computers will make the factories more efficient.

AI will make the computers more efficient.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#223

Post by Henchman21 »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #92
Henchman21 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not until aliens land and show us the way. I firmly believe we aren’t presently capable of allowing a post-scarcity economy to exist — too much stuff is based on scarcity. So much so that we create scarcity instead of giving away excess. I’m thinking of food specifically.

If "stuff" === power over other people, then agree 100%. There are people out there who would rather other people starve than they have one iota less prestige, power, influence or luxury. And, unfortunately, they are the people who wield most of the power in our society. We have to solve that before we can solve the economics, which is the easy part.

We agree.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#224

Post by Aurornis »

al_borland wrote: post #166

I've worked 3x12, 4x10, and 5x8, without AI. I think I was most productive on the 3x12 schedule. On the days I worked, I was able to lock in and get a lot done, and had a significant amount of time outside of the normal working hours, which were free from meetings and distractions. During those 3 days all I really did was work and sleep. On the 4 days off I was able to rest and recover and actually have a life. It al…

> During those 3 days all I really did was work and sleep.

This is why 3x12 is not workable for average families. If you have kids and want to see them, 3x12 only works if you start really really early, then get to bed early when the kids do too.

I enjoyed 4x10 when I did it, but there were some real problems with some employees trying to adapt. Anecdotally we were seeing a lot of people who would barely work until the 8 hour mark and then just zone out or socialize while they waited the clock out at the end of the day.

Which is all too bad for those of us who work well with longer days.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#225

Post by bwhiting2356 »

Ancalagon wrote: post #206
moduspol wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers and the Internet ushered in huge productivity gains. Despite many people losing their jobs as a result, it's tough to argue society isn't better off. I think that's the key difference with AI, though. It's not like I'm losing my job, but at least I have a robot at home that cleans the house and does my laundry. People are having their livelihoods threatened while their utility bills go up because of datacen…

Is society better off? Honest question, you used to be able to support a family of four with a single 9-5.

More household work was done in this era, before grocery stores sold prepared food, before washing machines. And more people lived in less square footage, with grandparents living in the home, less privacy and autonomy. I don't know if we've made the right trade, but it's not the case that a single worker's income was paying for the kind of lifestyle a family of four now has.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#226

Post by lofties »

krapp wrote: post #174
xiaoyu2006 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human had all the industrialization and stuff, yet we work 5 days / week now.

People work 5 days a week because of protracted violent strikes by unions and socialist revolutionaries forcing governments to recognize labor rights. Prior to that the norm was working 7 days a week, sunup to sundown, with only Christmas off, from adolescence until you died.

You're right. We need to bring back protracted violent strikes by unions and socialists!

Re: Can we have the day off?

#227

Post by paulhebert »

ikjasdlk2234 wrote: post #198
cattown wrote: post #33

This article is kind of playful, but I think there’s a serious point here that’s not discussed enough. We’re being asked to usher in huge productivity gains by introducing AI to our workflows, but we’re not asking how does it help us? Not a lot of us stand to directly gain from our employers becoming more productive. I know everybody is afraid of getting fired and replaced with AI or whatever right now. But we should…

I think the feeling is if we want to even keep our current footing in the market we have to increase productivity by 10x because everyone else is as well. And if everyone else is, the productivity floor is raised but every other competitor has done the same so we don't have 10x the economic output, maybe only a marginal increase. If that is true, then there will be no days off because we have just reset the status qu…

Exactly. All the employers are still sharing the same sized market. There’s not more money going around for them to earn.

But they’re also paying hefty AI bills so there’s less money for salaries.

The AI companies just swoop in and take some of the money that was going to the working man

Re: Can we have the day off?

#228

Post by shimman »

satvikpendem wrote: post #130
hx8 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this logic you could get promoted if you worked six day work weeks.

There's a reason 996 culture is seeping into American startups. Whether it actually makes them more productive in the market remains to be seen.

Yes, it's quite sad that when big tech leadership talks positively about China they really like the exploitive labor practices that the country exhibits.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#229

Post by lofties »

madrox wrote: post #129
hx8 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this logic you could get promoted if you worked six day work weeks.

Have you not seen people who work longer and harder get more promotions? That has been my experience.

Right, so if it's happening already, nothing is going to change. Four days a week it is!
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