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Can we have the day off?

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Re: Can we have the day off?

#101

Post by marcus_holmes »

kingforaday wrote: post #28

This is certainly a fun exercise in economics. By taking a shortened work-week, should the companies then pay us 80% of our current comp? Or maybe a little less since they will have to pay for the added tokens we are now using as part of our job that we used to do manually (i.e. time)? Or perhaps we are able to justify that now they can save overhead by reducing facilities costs by 20% as well. Oh but maybe their bus…

Are we paying people for their time, or for the results of their time?

If it's just time, then why are we doing so much overtime?

Re: Can we have the day off?

#102

Post by Finnucane »

1 And afterward Moses and Aaron came, and said unto Pharaoh: 'Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel: Let My people go, that they may hold a feast unto Me in the wilderness.'2 And Pharaoh said: 'Who is the LORD, that I should hearken unto His voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, and moreover I will not let Israel go.'

3 And they said: 'The God of the Hebrews hath met with us. Let us go, we pray thee, three days' journey into the wilderness, and sacrifice unto the LORD our God; lest He fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.'4 And the king of Egypt said unto them: 'Wherefore do ye, Moses and Aaron, cause the people to break loose from their work? get you unto your burdens.'5 And Pharaoh said: 'Behold, the people of the land are now many, and will ye make them rest from their burdens?'6 And the same day Pharaoh commanded the taskmasters of the people, and their officers, saying:7 'Ye shall no more give the people straw to make brick, as heretofore. Let them go and gather straw for themselves.8 And the tale of the bricks, which they did make heretofore, ye shall lay upon them; ye shall not diminish aught thereof; for they are idle; therefore they cry, saying: Let us go and sacrifice to our God.9 Let heavier work be laid upon the men, that they may labour therein; and let them not regard lying words.'

10 And the taskmasters of the people went out, and their officers, and they spoke to the people, saying: 'Thus saith Pharaoh: I will not give you straw.11 Go yourselves, get you straw where ye can find it; for nought of your work shall be diminished.'12 So the people were scattered abroad throughout all the land of Egypt to gather stubble for straw.13 And the taskmasters were urgent, saying: 'Fulfil your work, your daily task, as when there was straw.'14 And the officers of the children of Israel, whom Pharaoh's taskmasters had set over them, were beaten, saying: 'Wherefore have ye not fulfilled your appointed task in making brick both yesterday and today as heretofore?'

Re: Can we have the day off?

#103

Post by gdulli »

cebert wrote: post #27
maximinus_thrax wrote: post #4

> If AI is going to 10x our productivity across the board, that means that I should be able to produce the same amount of output by midday on Monday that, in the before times, would have taken all week. You must be new here. No, that's not how this work. If you are able to produce the same amount of work by midday Monday we expect you to increase the amount of output in the current system by 14 x. And the owners pock…

> And the owners pocket the financial gain from this productivity delta and you should be happy you even have a job. This is why it’s prudent for more of us to figure out a way to be our own owners.

What a community of temporarily embarrassed unicorns we have here.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#104

Post by cmuguythrow »

chipsrafferty wrote: post #67
cmuguythrow wrote: post #39

Relevant: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ the concern would be that this new ability will actually increase competition and give us less than we had before this is not something that can just be blamed on the "CEOs/execs/shareholders" of the world. it is evolutionary competition - unless we can ALL join forces to draw the line somewhere, someone will choose to defect from the agreement to…

Did you just link to a rat website as if that is a good source?

Good source for what? I'm just trying to point to a concept, an idea. There's no "facts" here, just speculation. If you disagree with the point there, why don't you just say what you think is true instead, I'm happy to discuss the ways in which the article is wrong

Re: Can we have the day off?

#105

Post by r-w »

arjvik wrote: post #61
chipsrafferty wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. If I am producing 10x more output then I expect to be getting paid about 8x more or working 8x less.

something something you're paid the amount the market values your work, which in today's job market is an order of magnitude less than the profit you bring the company

Well then why make it easy for my work to get devalued? It's not like workers are sitting on the sidelines here, they (I'm aggregate, at least) hold all the power.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#106

Post by 9991 »

bigbuppo wrote: post #54
kingforaday wrote: post #28

This is certainly a fun exercise in economics. By taking a shortened work-week, should the companies then pay us 80% of our current comp? Or maybe a little less since they will have to pay for the added tokens we are now using as part of our job that we used to do manually (i.e. time)? Or perhaps we are able to justify that now they can save overhead by reducing facilities costs by 20% as well. Oh but maybe their bus…

No. They should give you 40x your current pay. The AI made you 10x more productive, and you worked four days, so you generated 40x the economic output. As such, you should get 40x in pay. At this point, you're doing the company a favor by taking a day off as otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford you.

Sounds like the AI should get 36x the current pay. It's not as if the employee is bringing that to the table.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#107

Post by thundergolfer »

krashidov wrote: post #22

> If AI is going to 10x our productivity across the board, that means that I should be able to produce the same amount of output by midday on Monday that, in the before times, would have taken all week. That would be true if you and only you are 10x more productive than anyone else. Since everyone is now 10x more productive it just means you have to work just as much as before since you're competition can outwork you…

This is downvoted but's it pointing out a fundamental dynamic in capitalism. Labour activists had to intervene in this dynamic to protect workers from being exhausted by the constant need for capital to increase labour exploitation to increase profits.

Almost this entire thread is people discussing a labour issue with no reference to the fundamental antagonism between labour and capital.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#108

Post by apt-apt-apt-apt »

cattown wrote: post #33

This article is kind of playful, but I think there’s a serious point here that’s not discussed enough. We’re being asked to usher in huge productivity gains by introducing AI to our workflows, but we’re not asking how does it help us? Not a lot of us stand to directly gain from our employers becoming more productive. I know everybody is afraid of getting fired and replaced with AI or whatever right now. But we should…

Same answer as for most hope-filled employee questions sadly:

You get to keep your job. You agreed to accept X pay for 40 hours, do it or we'll find someone else who will.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#109

Post by class3shock »

paulddraper wrote: post #82
alexpotato wrote: post #43

My dad was a stock broker in the late 1970s and remembers when most of trading was 100% manual and firms actually had "runners" who would take stock certificates back and forth between trading firms. He has this great quote about when computers came out: "We were told 'computers will save you so much time on work tasks that you won't even know what to do with your free time'. I spent the next 30 years working the sam…

Because human nature it to want more, more than wanting idleness.

[flagged]

Re: Can we have the day off?

#110

Post by king_geedorah »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #55
p-e-w wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That hasn’t been true for decades in the West, even though per-capita productivity has been steadily rising since WW2.

Are you sure? From the data I’ve seen the bottom decile Americans consume significantly more per capita compared to even 2006. e.g. plane travel was completely absent amongst the bottom decile in 2006, like so close to zero mileage per capita per annum it was a rounding error.

Is bottom decile consumption a good measure of economic health? In a way it seems it could signal the opposite, ie in the past the bottom decile was saving that money in an effort to change their economic conditions vs spending it now could indicate a lack of hope for upward mobility.

To your example it seems worth noting that the quality of the air travel experience appears to decline over time as well.

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