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Can we have the day off?

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Re: Can we have the day off?

#91

Post by matchbok3 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #41
matchbok3 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those things also resulted in the massive increase in the quality of life for everyone. Nobody will suggest we ban cars and go back to horse and buggies so cowboys can have jobs.

> All of those things also resulted in the massive increase in the quality of life for everyone. Yes, everyone has a modern smartphone now. Cool, thanks. But last time I checked, can't pay my rent with a smartphone when I'm out of a job. > Nobody will suggest we ban cars and go back to horse and buggies so cowboys can have jobs. Maybe not that, but have you looked at sustainable farming movements? In farming, there i…

Everything you say is correct but it comes with a massive decrease in quality of life for the average person. Food will be 5x the cost, with less variety. Nobody wants to till the land anymore. Just like people 100 years ago didn't want to be hunters.

Are you willing to part with your smartphone and computer? I would bet not.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#92

Post by marcus_holmes »

Henchman21 wrote: post #23
tantalor wrote: post #6

Star Trek post-scarcity economy when?? https://rickwebb.medium.com/the-economics-of-star-trek-29bab...

Not until aliens land and show us the way. I firmly believe we aren’t presently capable of allowing a post-scarcity economy to exist — too much stuff is based on scarcity. So much so that we create scarcity instead of giving away excess. I’m thinking of food specifically.

If "stuff" === power over other people, then agree 100%.

There are people out there who would rather other people starve than they have one iota less prestige, power, influence or luxury. And, unfortunately, they are the people who wield most of the power in our society.

We have to solve that before we can solve the economics, which is the easy part.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#93

Post by hexis »

kbar13 wrote: post #78
Cakez0r wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that most people are paid for their time, not for their output. I think most contracts for salaried employees are along the lines of "work n hours a week". If you want to get paid for output, you can't be a salaried employee.

is this not backwards? salaried employee means you get paid the same amount no matter how many hours you work.

typically there is a floor, at least de facto.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#94

Post by MichaelZuo »

p-e-w wrote: post #75
MichaelZuo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? From the data I’ve seen the bottom decile Americans consume significantly more per capita compared to even 2006. e.g. plane travel was completely absent amongst the bottom decile in 2006, like so close to zero mileage per capita per annum it was a rounding error.

Plane travel is a very poor proxy for quality of life. Home ownership, high-quality food, working hours etc. seem far more relevant.

Huh?

People will, intentionally, work longer hours to afford more frequent plane travel. And to upgrade classes, perks, lounge access, etc…

I’m pretty sure there are literally millions of people like that.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#95

Post by coro_1 »

monkaiju wrote: post #51
cattown wrote: post #33

This article is kind of playful, but I think there’s a serious point here that’s not discussed enough. We’re being asked to usher in huge productivity gains by introducing AI to our workflows, but we’re not asking how does it help us? Not a lot of us stand to directly gain from our employers becoming more productive. I know everybody is afraid of getting fired and replaced with AI or whatever right now. But we should…

I mean productivity gains don't usually go towards making the workers life any better. Also I'm still less than convinced there are any net productivity gains from AI anyway.

AI copy pasta misses beats. I've seen people forget to review their comms, and create a lot of confusion, wasting time actually.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#96

Post by aetch »

Cakez0r wrote: post #68
cattown wrote: post #33

This article is kind of playful, but I think there’s a serious point here that’s not discussed enough. We’re being asked to usher in huge productivity gains by introducing AI to our workflows, but we’re not asking how does it help us? Not a lot of us stand to directly gain from our employers becoming more productive. I know everybody is afraid of getting fired and replaced with AI or whatever right now. But we should…

The reality is that most people are paid for their time, not for their output. I think most contracts for salaried employees are along the lines of "work n hours a week". If you want to get paid for output, you can't be a salaried employee.

I think it’s the other way around. Hourly wages are paid directly for time at work

Re: Can we have the day off?

#97

Post by lorecore »

chipsrafferty wrote: post #83
lorecore wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree for the most part, but fear of technological weapons is sort of the opposite of capitalism. So much of our technology stack was built by the government for warfare (including the internet) and in that sense is a form of socialism. I fear being targeted by an AI drone and mass surveillance. Neither of which are driven by capitalism (although being targeted by either of those by some billionaire because I refus…

How are neither of them being driven by capitalism? U.S. becomes more authoritarian -> you are more afraid of being targeted by an AI drone and mass surveillance -> companies that make those weapons of war for the government (prime contractors) make billions -> they use their money to influence politics and public opinion -> U.S. becomes more authoritarian -> etc.

Capitalism is certainly one lever, but were we a communist country, I would still be afraid of the same thing. Centralization of power and ideology driving technological progress is in essence what I think we should all worry about.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#98

Post by tredre3 »

bluegatty wrote: post #66
tantalor wrote: post #6

Star Trek post-scarcity economy when?? https://rickwebb.medium.com/the-economics-of-star-trek-29bab...

we are very well past post-scarcity. we definitely choose consumption over free time for the most part. people generally choose nicer home, starbucks, vacay, neflix over work hours or retirement. so this is a cultural issue

We are very well past the point where technology could allow post-scarcity.

Post-scarcity is no longer technological problem, it's a political one. But it's still very much a problem, so no, we are not anywhere near post-scarcity.

I also don't understand the point you're making about people wanting to spend $15 on netflix or $12 on a coffee. Would everybody cutting netflix and lattes allow us to live in that utopia more quickly?

Re: Can we have the day off?

#99

Post by calvinmorrison »

Sl1mb0 wrote: post #86
calvinmorrison wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my dad grew up in a house without running water in a town where everyone worked in a mine and the lead was everywhere. he hitchiked to alaska for seasonal work in a fish cannery. Yeah I don't know... i think things are better than they were 40 years ago.

There are still people in America who live without running water. There are still people who work on fishing boats in Alaska. There are still people who hitchhike. This is literally just an anecdote trying to deflect from contemporary problems. I don't see any value in this sort of discourse. Just because things may have been worse for specific individuals does *not* mean that current problems shouldn't be addressed.

oh no an anecdote! run away!

Re: Can we have the day off?

#100

Post by whatshisface »

cattown wrote: post #33

This article is kind of playful, but I think there’s a serious point here that’s not discussed enough. We’re being asked to usher in huge productivity gains by introducing AI to our workflows, but we’re not asking how does it help us? Not a lot of us stand to directly gain from our employers becoming more productive. I know everybody is afraid of getting fired and replaced with AI or whatever right now. But we should…

Working out why the workweek is 5 days, non-negotiably, even if you'd be willing to be paid less in proportion, comes down to realizing that it's being maximized subject to the constraint that everybody would flip out if it was 6, and then working out why it's being maximized.

What it's telling you is that a company would rather have 4 people working 5 days a week than 5 people working 4 days a week. The reason for that is, productivity drops a lot when it's spread out over multiple people. The reason behind that is communication overhead - the more context an individual carries in their heads, the less likely their role will exist on an hourly basis in the industry.

So, if anyone wants AI to give us another day off, we need to think about how it can reduce the cost of "context switching" a whole person on and off a task, without simultaneously formalizing our roles so much that it gives us all five. ;-)

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