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Private equity bought America's essential services

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351–360 of 584 posts

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think losing the equity portion of the investment means no risk? It's not fully debt financed. And that debt financing bears an interest proportional to the riskiness of the asset's cashflows. There are lots to hate about LBOs but they aren't entirely devoid of value

The risks are asymmetric in real world terms. For the PE side, the worst-case outcome is bankruptcy of the company they bought via LBO, but because it was an LBO their own exposure is relatively minimal (the lender is the one with the one most capital at risk). At the end of the day, it's a balance sheet item, a cost of doing business, a few digits on a spreadsheet. But for the company that was bought? Those are peop…

I just wanted to say that you're absolutely correct on everything, but I wanted to add a point:

We have spent the last 50-ish years "legitimizing" things like PE buying up essential services and implementing cost cuts. When I say "legitimizing", I mean we keep removing the avenues for the "regular people" to legally and formally reduce the harms that this sort of business brings about. It becomes just a fact of life: people can come in and do this and you have to "deal with it".

When you have people dying, watching their streets crumble, have garbage piling up, etc., you can't just think that "regular people" (or maybe "the little people", as some businesspeople might view them) will "deal with it" forever, regardless of how much legal, financial, and political cover you provide yourself. At some point, there will be a reckoning. In that case, you'll prefer that it be through a regulation change, lawsuit, or lost election/ballot initiative.

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#352
I think an unintended byproduct of prolonged cheap capital is an environment ripe with antitrust issues. I’m all for capitalism mentality but this feels like a logical extreme and is not good for the long term.

Other examples not mentioned: eggs, kids athletics, I’ve heard stories in fintech services as well

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no attention paid to the folks who sold the businesses to them? Why would the retiring dentist selling their practice be a trust or collusion problem?

Because their customers, who they built a trusting relationship with, get hosed when the owner wants to cash out. That’s the whole math of it. That cash out comes from the future business increasing profit, which is over the longest term cutting service quality. Start small biz > be successful > want to retire > find someone to buy biz There’s a lot of pathways with a giant c corp, almost none for the local successfu…

> Because their customers, who they built a trusting relationship with, get hosed when the owner wants to cash out.

Sure, and it's often a real loss to customers, but are you suggesting mandating that you vet the person you're selling to for their business aspirations and then have some kind of legal covenant that binds them to those stated aspirations, enforced by...something?

Otherwise we can just be satisfied with shaming them, but seems like an awfully convenient way to sidetrack this conversation from the obvious remedies.

> That cash out comes from the future business increasing profit, which is over the longest term cutting service quality.

Which is a problem when the same person buying also bought up all the other dentist offices, so there's no choice, let alone competition, in services.

Eliminate that and the sweetheart buyout offers make a lot less financial sense and we can at least prevent the scales from tippng so steeply toward PE buying up all the dentists, hospitals, retirement homes, HVAC repair, roofing companies, pest control, etc etc

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> eventually their offerings will not be competitive. How so?

If you read the article it provides a good example. Fire truck businesses with a 4 year backlog and high margins. This is less competitive than the situation prior to PE consolidating it when it had much lower backlog and ~3% margins. Seems like a clear market opportunity.

Ah, okay. Sorry, I misread what you had said. I missed the “owned”, and thought you were saying the PE companies themselves would be uncompetitive—and wasn’t sure what you meant.

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#355
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the tools we use was bought by PE last summer. When it was time to renew our support contract had tripled in price. I use it across 10 projects so our costs went from $200k to $500k. I let our account manager know this was unacceptable but even his hands were tied. Cancelled those contracts and let them know we were retooling with a competing tool and opensource to fill those gaps. The impression I got was we…

> When it was time to renew our support contract had tripled in price. Currently in PE hell myself. Company I work for was bought out few years ago when the owner cashed out. Right out of the gate it was a numbers go up game. New sales person was hired and their first order of business was - drum roll please - triple prices! Customers balked. Some walked. In addition, some employee benefits evaporated, vacation time…

I'd have said ghouls. At least vampires are sexy...

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how successful they have become at aggressively optimising for market value They use money to turn value into money, which they then use to turn more value, into more money. And in the end, they have a lot of money, and all of the value is gone.

That's only possible if the financial system is valuing things systematically incorrectly. IFF a company is truly, honest to god, less valuable than the sum of its parts, then it (or the subset that would have more value to someone else) SHOULD be dismantled, and those resources sold and reallocated to more productive use. You probably make these sorts of decisions in the capacity of your own personal finances withou…

> That's only possible if the financial system is valuing things systematically incorrectly.

Well… yeah. I mean, it seems clear that the market is pretty bad at valuing companies. At the very least, valuations are based on a combination of (a) measurable attributes, and (b) vibes. (a) will always be incomplete, and runs into all of the same measurement problems that everything else does. And (b) is really unreliable.

Plus, PE companies are not especially interested in long timelines, whereas companies can eventually provide a lot more value that they’re worth right now.

And that’s not even getting into situations where they own enough of the market to not care about losing customers.

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Don’t many jobs still have gold plated pensions? Like millions upon millions? They need to be paid out somehow.

> many jobs... millions upon millions ...no. It doesn't even matter what the rest of the words in the question are. Just no, lol. > They need to be paid out somehow. No they don't. Lots of pensions, especially the not-gilded ones, go bankrupt. In fact, that's precisely what happens to pensions of companies that are acquired by PE. The company gets stripped for parts, it goes bankrupt, and PBGC covers a fraction of th…

Are you confused?

Why are you replying to a comment where you believe the words “doesn’t even matter”?

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the pleasure of growing up around gray markets (relatively free, bribes were predictable & reasonable enough for an average noodle seller) in Southeast Asia in the 90s. It's quite different from large corporations getting Federal agencies and municipalities to lock out any potential competition. The enforcement of the US govt is far stronger than the enforcement of a handful of corrupt cops, as each precinct is…

I'll say that I don't know anything about 90s SEA, but I know a bit about gray markets. One thing that stands out to me in your description is that all the corruption is incredibly localized and small-scale. Everything happens at the scale of individuals. And I don't deny that living under these conditions won't be that bad (a single corrupt official's power can only go so far), but what's stopping it from eventually…

I'm saying that those biggest players and our governments already work hand in hand to do that. Which is to say, the government is used as the enforcement arm for corporate interests. This is less "free" market, and more market commanded by interests.

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#359
post #302

The irony is that PEs exist largely because of pension funds. So to sum it up (not so nicely) we are transferring value from our current standard of living to pay for retirement checks for our old folks. Pensions fund a significant part of PE and they do so because they need around a 7% return in order to look solvent. If they do not have the higher PE returns, they basically go out if cash in 10 years and everyone w…

I've been saying pensions should not exist, as they are contradictory to our political system. Some politician 40 years ago can promise everyone the moon, and never force the next generation to figure it out. I'm from Chicago which has a nightmare pension system that's keeping me from ever buying a home in the city I love, because my property tax increases just go to retired people who moved to Florida. I really appr…

Your Chicago government has way bigger problems than covering its promises to deliver elderly people the standard of life they earned.

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Don’t many jobs still have gold plated pensions? Like millions upon millions? They need to be paid out somehow.

Looks like about 18 percent, although I would assume there's a particular demographic where this might be higher. Do they have to be paid out in full, though? I remember cases in the past where a company went bankrupt and had to renege on some parts of pensions, so maybe you'll see that again?

After some percentage are reneged… there would still be a strongly motivated bloc of considerable size?

I don’t see how it is relevant, unless the rate is close to 100%.

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