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Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

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Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#131

Post by znpy »

amluto wrote: post #60

To me, datacenters, especially for AI (which tolerates an extra hundred ms of latency quite well) seem like an unusual form of development. Many forms of development have similar downsides: they destroy green space, they can be noisy, they compete for energy resources [0], etc. On the flip side, though, most new developments add substantial value: jobs, tax revenue, increased industry around them, local availability…

> they destroy green space

the law addresses exactly this. it greatly overtaxes datacenter in green spaces and lowers taxes in former industrial areas.

Regarding whether it's a good development drive... I can tell you, most companies could save a shitload of money by buying a few pallets of machines and racking them in a... datacenter.

I see our monthly AWS bill, I highly doubt we'd be spending that in datacenter bills.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#132

Post by napolux »

re-thc wrote: post #20

> built in green/agricultural areas So they want them in other areas instead? Like next to residential area? I'm not sure they understand the implications...

old industrial areas, which sometimes are pretty far from residential ones

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#133

Post by smw »

plastic-enjoyer wrote: post #117
bigmadshoe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

I think we need a citation about the libertarian / capitalism thing? I know a lot of leftist engineers. Look how blue the bay area votes?

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#134

Post by znpy »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #64
amluto wrote: post #60

To me, datacenters, especially for AI (which tolerates an extra hundred ms of latency quite well) seem like an unusual form of development. Many forms of development have similar downsides: they destroy green space, they can be noisy, they compete for energy resources [0], etc. On the flip side, though, most new developments add substantial value: jobs, tax revenue, increased industry around them, local availability…

A warehouse or factory would have more jobs, but would also bring massive truck loads to the local roads and corresponding pollution. The low staffing of datacenters means that one they are built there is little transportation impact.

> A warehouse or factory would have more jobs,

It would add low value-added jobs though (unskilled labor). Datacenters add high value-added jobs (skilled labor).

Only looking at the headcount is shortsighted imho.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#135

Post by oblio »

znpy wrote: post #134
morpheuskafka wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A warehouse or factory would have more jobs, but would also bring massive truck loads to the local roads and corresponding pollution. The low staffing of datacenters means that one they are built there is little transportation impact.

> A warehouse or factory would have more jobs, It would add low value-added jobs though (unskilled labor). Datacenters add high value-added jobs (skilled labor). Only looking at the headcount is shortsighted imho.

Aren't DC remotely managed for almost everything? How does a DC in Paris, Alabama benefit the locals if 99% of the well paid jobs for it are done in the Bay Area?

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#136

Post by sieve »

amluto wrote: post #60

To me, datacenters, especially for AI (which tolerates an extra hundred ms of latency quite well) seem like an unusual form of development. Many forms of development have similar downsides: they destroy green space, they can be noisy, they compete for energy resources [0], etc. On the flip side, though, most new developments add substantial value: jobs, tax revenue, increased industry around them, local availability…

> Datacenters are weird

In the same way that most public utilities are: train stations, railway lines, airports, garbage dumps, sewage treatment plants, military bases and a hundred other things. The negatives are concentrated to the locality and everyone else reaps the benefits.

I get it if you wish to put a 99% self-sufficiency condition (water/power etc) but everything else reeks of luddism and nimbyism.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#137

Post by thefz »

plastic-enjoyer wrote: post #117
bigmadshoe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Spot on. The difference in thinking with the US is enormous.

I wonder if all they want from the future is fat people on mobility scooters like the beginning of wall-e.

Sure, AI may be the future for a certain market, but datacenters aside we will always need clean land, air and water, food for our bodies and homes to live in.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#138

Post by oblio »

energy123 wrote: post #62
bigmadshoe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Europe can opt out if they want, hyperscalers are building in South Asia, SEA and MENA where they get tax breaks. We'll see how that plays out for Europe.

The hyperscalers want to sell AI services in Europe. Not everything is about supply, a lot of it is about demand.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#139

Post by condis »

oblio wrote: post #135
znpy wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A warehouse or factory would have more jobs, It would add low value-added jobs though (unskilled labor). Datacenters add high value-added jobs (skilled labor). Only looking at the headcount is shortsighted imho.

Aren't DC remotely managed for almost everything? How does a DC in Paris, Alabama benefit the locals if 99% of the well paid jobs for it are done in the Bay Area?

[dead]

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#140

Post by oblio »

perks_12 wrote: post #116
vrganj wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Try Claude Code for a weekend. Maybe that clears up the confusion about how amazing AI can be. You can also take a look at North Korea as an example of a nation that decided the industrial revolution was one to sit out.

I've used Claude Code for quite a bit longer and it's good, but the productivity benefits are wildly overstated.
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