Earlier quoted context omitted.
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We do. But currently we are choosing the Luddite way of doing things. Simply ignoring this fantastic technology is not a choice but economic suicide.
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Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas
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Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas
#62Datacenters need cheap energy, something no region in Europe is having in abundance (except maybe Norway, Sweden, and Finland). I don't think Lombardy was seeing too much DC construction. It's just typical green politics. Forever backwards. Sure, people feel somewhat AI-fatigued, but blocking the future won't play out nicely for Italy or Europe in general.
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Europe can opt out if they want, hyperscalers are building in South Asia, SEA and MENA where they get tax breaks. We'll see how that plays out for Europe.
Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
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We do. But currently we are choosing the Luddite way of doing things. Simply ignoring this fantastic technology is not a choice but economic suicide.
Your comments read as unhinged. Do you actually believe that HN audience of all places is composed of Luddite? People who are working in the tech industry but are somehow anti future because they are concerned by the ever growing energy demand from AI? How much are you ok to sacrifice to the LLM gods before you would start to question the technology?
Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas
#64To me, datacenters, especially for AI (which tolerates an extra hundred ms of latency quite well) seem like an unusual form of development. Many forms of development have similar downsides: they destroy green space, they can be noisy, they compete for energy resources [0], etc. On the flip side, though, most new developments add substantial value: jobs, tax revenue, increased industry around them, local availability…
A warehouse or factory would have more jobs, but would also bring massive truck loads to the local roads and corresponding pollution. The low staffing of datacenters means that one they are built there is little transportation impact.
Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas
#65[flagged]
The EU is an agricultural union with a bit of other stuff sprinkled on top.
That was true 30 years ago, but is less true today. That doesn't mean farmers don't have inordinate power, but that's the same in most developed countries with rural areas (see also, the USA, Japan, etc).
Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas
#66To me, datacenters, especially for AI (which tolerates an extra hundred ms of latency quite well) seem like an unusual form of development. Many forms of development have similar downsides: they destroy green space, they can be noisy, they compete for energy resources [0], etc. On the flip side, though, most new developments add substantial value: jobs, tax revenue, increased industry around them, local availability…
Why don't they pay much in taxes? hyperscalers are pretty profitable.
Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
We do. But currently we are choosing the Luddite way of doing things. Simply ignoring this fantastic technology is not a choice but economic suicide.
Your comments read as unhinged. Do you actually believe that HN audience of all places is composed of Luddite? People who are working in the tech industry but are somehow anti future because they are concerned by the ever growing energy demand from AI? How much are you ok to sacrifice to the LLM gods before you would start to question the technology?
Well, that depends. How much do you actually know about the Luddites, versus making assumptions vs their use as a pejorative in pop culture?
The more our definition of "Luddite" becomes historically accurage, the more it is true that yes, the HN audience is composed of people like that.
Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas
#68Datacenters need cheap energy, something no region in Europe is having in abundance (except maybe Norway, Sweden, and Finland). I don't think Lombardy was seeing too much DC construction. It's just typical green politics. Forever backwards. Sure, people feel somewhat AI-fatigued, but blocking the future won't play out nicely for Italy or Europe in general.
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I still haven't seen anybody demonstrating we have to do such thing.
We do have to spent a bit of each for any new tech advancement, but the alarmist, disproportionate claim you make is really not helping.
ArcelorMittal Dunkirk rolling & steel complex alone is ~450–550 hectares (more than colussus) and consume 2.23 TWh/year (colussus is ~2.6 TWh/year at 300 MW continuous load) and of course, water consumption for metal working is gigantic.
That's just ONE single facility in France.
I don't think anybody who understands the basics of civilization would want to go back before the Industrial Revolution.
Tech has a cost, and you usually pay a lot more at the begining of creating it.
Does it cause problems? Sure. Should we take it very seriously? Definitely.
But just repeating internet outrage is not a way to make good decisions.
Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
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AI is front and center of any new digital product these days. More and more tedious tasks are automated using agents, even in small businesses. Assuming Europe won't invest in datacenters, eventually it will find itself in a position where it is completely dependent on US and Chinese companies providing the core to such solutions to them. This will eventually lead to a situation where more and more value creation wil…
But in this case what does a country lose by blocking any and all data centers in its borders? A few ms latency?
Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your comments read as unhinged. Do you actually believe that HN audience of all places is composed of Luddite? People who are working in the tech industry but are somehow anti future because they are concerned by the ever growing energy demand from AI? How much are you ok to sacrifice to the LLM gods before you would start to question the technology?
Well, that depends. How much do you actually know about the Luddites, versus making assumptions vs their use as a pejorative in pop culture? The more our definition of "Luddite" becomes historically accurage, the more it is true that yes, the HN audience is composed of people like that.
My definition of Luddite doesn’t matter, the person I responded to clearly used it in a pejorative way to describe people who are resistant to new technologies (likely irrational)