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Big tech's anti-labor playbook has come for Wikipedia

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Re: Big tech's anti-labor playbook has come for Wikipedia

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is probably one of those things, once they are gone you will see just how effective they were.

I'm sure they're effective at maintaining the appearance of objectivity, so I agree that things will look terribly biased if they take a collective leave. That it will actually be worse on contentious topics, I'm not so sure if. My assumption for Wikipedia on any contentious topic, is that professionals have been gaming the system for so long that you're going to see very competent propaganda. Basically I think it's…

> Basically I think it's good if people stop trusting Wikipedia on contentious topics.

Why? Is there a better source of information for those not able to spend years following all news from all sides?

Re: Big tech's anti-labor playbook has come for Wikipedia

#273
post #87
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a result, WMF prioritizes investing in emerging markets over enwiki. This means outreach to indigenous languages in the Global South and developing supporting infrastructure. e.g. "Abstract Wikipedia" which aims to use a language-neutral syntax that can be automatically translated into any language. I'd disagree that there is a causal relationship here. I think most of the outreach to indigneous languages has mo…

The "abstract Wikipedia" just seems like a solved problem with LLMs. However sceptical of "AI" you are, "give me the information on this page in my preferred language" is the kind of task they excel at. (I won't use the word translate ). It wouldn't even require prioritising the English Wikipedia: any agent today could one shot a task like "check the Wikipedia pages in all languages for X, summarize the results and n…

> "give me the information on this page in my preferred language" is the kind of task they excel at.

...So long as you don't mind it introducing random hallucinations into the information.

Re: Big tech's anti-labor playbook has come for Wikipedia

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they're effective at maintaining the appearance of objectivity, so I agree that things will look terribly biased if they take a collective leave. That it will actually be worse on contentious topics, I'm not so sure if. My assumption for Wikipedia on any contentious topic, is that professionals have been gaming the system for so long that you're going to see very competent propaganda. Basically I think it's…

> Basically I think it's good if people stop trusting Wikipedia on contentious topics. Why? Is there a better source of information for those not able to spend years following all news from all sides?

No. So if you're OK with having the most respectable wrong beliefs about a contentious topic, go for it. It's basically the political equivalent of "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM".

Re: Big tech's anti-labor playbook has come for Wikipedia

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a brief skim, the list includes pretty much all active Arbitration Enforcement (AE) admins. For those not in the loop, AE is the main mechanism to enforce civility and neutrality in contentious areas (obvious stuff like Israel-Palestine, American Politics, but also India-Pakistan, casteism, etc etc). It removes editors that are obviously only on the site to astroturf a specific belief relating to a globally cont…

Astroturf is not the right word, because appearing to be grassroots isn't how you sell your perspective on Wikipedia. Most of the people stopped from editing contentious topics on Wikipedia are in all likelihood more sincere about their beliefs than average. The more organized and professional they are about shilling, the better they do.

> The more organized and professional they are about shilling, the better they do.

This is incorrect.

Shills do well when they contribute outside of the topic area, memorize wiki-law, and only coordinate to !vote in contentious high-impact discussions. e.g. requested moves, reliable sources noticeboard discussions, and RfCs. They are seen as "normal" Wikipedia editors.

Professionally organized shills are unable to do this since they must ensure most of their time is "on-task" meeting a comment/karma/etc qutoa and find it difficult to justify doing non-shilling work. This works well on sites like Reddit or HackerNews. It does not work on Wikipedia.

For starters, discussion outcomes are moderated and closers do not count votes. Closers look at your history and assign lower weight to editors that appear only to be interested in a particular area.

Other mechanisms include a 500 edit minimum for certain areas + a "balanced editing restriction" (maintained by Tamzin, the same person starting the strike) which tracks %age of edits by subject area and can impose a maximum of 30% in the contentious subject.

Trying to skate under these bare minimums is similar to avoiding money-laundering by making many cash deposits of $9999. You'll be taken to Arbitration Enforcement and look even more suspicious.

You need someone who'll can non-professionally shoot-the-shit at random hours to maintain the cover story despite it not being a clear requirement.

Currently, the best shill-farm is run by the /r/Palestine subreddit. If you join their Discord, you can participate yourself! https://discord.com/invite/hhsG4QTf9n

Essentially, you're given free rein to edit as you see fit with an encouragement to make many uncontroversial edits & befriend normal editors. You do not know who else is part of the project and do not interact with them on Discord. It is very antisocial in that sense.

You are only "activated" by the Discord mod through direct messages to !vote in high-impact RfCs/discussions, e.g. officially recognizing the Gaza Genocide.

This avoids creating a clear paper trail of collusion and means it's difficult for someone to infiltrate/burn the network. It's also incompatible with the micromanagement typical of traditional influence operations.

It's been going on for a few years now as a continuation of other farms. It's one of the main reasons there's been such a slant towards Palestine onwiki lately.

Yes, it's been reported many times by many people. It is an open secret at this point and Arbitration has failed at actioning this.

So far, the only people who have been banned were the ones dumb enough to re-use the same username on Discord as Wikipedia, so now you get a warning not to do that during onboarding. Otherwise, it's too difficult to prove participation.

Re: Big tech's anti-labor playbook has come for Wikipedia

#276
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, check program expense ratios https://www.charitynavigator.org/discover-charities/best-cha... but see also https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/blog/arent-the-best-charitie... and https://www.givewell.org/

this is all insane. it assumes you want charity forever! the initial assumption is already wrong. also, back on topic: Executive Salaries Position Salary (Annual) Ex-CEO (Katherine Maher) $789,495 COO (Janeen Uzzell) $503,844 CFO (Jaime Villagomez) $386,433 General Counsel (Amanda Keton) $396,514 Current Highest Salaries Position Salary (Annual) Software Engineering Manager $164,080 Technical Program Manager $159,200…

did you mean to reply to my comment? if yes, can I ask you to explain what do you mean by assumption? where is that coming from?

regarding WMF (and other non-profits, like Mozilla), this is a well-known phenomenon - regarding C-suite compensation (it's usually about risk aversion, and that the board or whatever foundations have, is also usually sitting on other non-profits, and rarely they optimize by moving to the cheapest place and hiring folks for much cheaper, etc)

Re: Big tech's anti-labor playbook has come for Wikipedia

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Also, I basically stopped visiting my building’s first floor because all the amenities I need are on my level now. I’m not sure I agree with the whole “buildings need foundations” stuff anymore.

Unironically an excellent analogy

How could it ever be perceived as ironic?

Re: Big tech's anti-labor playbook has come for Wikipedia

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically I think it's good if people stop trusting Wikipedia on contentious topics. Why? Is there a better source of information for those not able to spend years following all news from all sides?

No. So if you're OK with having the most respectable wrong beliefs about a contentious topic, go for it. It's basically the political equivalent of "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM".

Please provide examples for "the most respectable wrong beliefs". Do you consider, e.g., the climate crisis as one?

Re: Big tech's anti-labor playbook has come for Wikipedia

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> give me the information on this page in my preferred language I'm sure that works great for European languages and other languages with huge corpus. Those are not the target languages of the program in question.

LLMs are great with minority languages compared to almost anything else. Including better than the by the natural language generation employed to use Abstract Wikipedia, which whiffs at relatively large languages like Zulu and Xhosa, let alone many of the rarer languages that popular LLMs speak fluently.

This program is aimed at getting actual humans to write their actual language. Nothing beats that.

At a minimum, it provides more material to train an LLM on.

Re: Big tech's anti-labor playbook has come for Wikipedia

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time with the idea that Wikipedia is unbiased when the main source in most cases is news reporting. Wikipedia is a societal form of Gell-Mann Amnesia.

i'm not sure you're why you're being downvoted, relying on journalism is the weakest part of wikipedia, far and away, because it affects accuracy, which is what gell man amnesia is about, not bias. in comparison bias, in general, seems to happen regardless of sourcing.

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