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The real cost of owning a home

ericturner.dev

361–370 of 901 posts

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#361
> I bought my home in Auburn, WA for $321k, and sold it a few years later for $333k. After all the costs to buy and sell it, I probably lost more money on it than I would have spent renting an apartment.

Any half-competent realtor will tell you that if you aren't going to stay in a house for 3+ years you will probably lose money on closing costs/fees.

Contrast this with my house, I stayed in it for ~6 years and the house went up ~$100K in value. During that time I put ~$50k into it (AC, Insulation, Pest, replaced some pipes).

But most importantly, it was mine. I did have to manage my own maintenance but I've lived through almost a decade of renting at differently places and the "included" maintenance is dog shit. At one point I had water in my kitchen floor such that as you'd walk water would come up through the seems in the vinyl for well over a month... on the 16th floor. I also had long streches where the elevators weren't working and every year they increased rent $50-$100/mo. Right as I was moving out they wanted to add a $25/mo pet fee and the removed our cable modems and made everyone use wifi-only (limit 10 devices). Yes, some of those could be avoid renting a house not an apartment but I've lived that life as well and it ain't all roses either.

TANSTAAFL. Maybe renting and owning come out about even for most people in most situations, but a lot of the "perks" of renting really sucked IMHO and I greatly preferred being in control of my own destiny, never having to ask permission, not feeling like a second-class citizen, not having the owners stop by or want to show off my unit to a prospective customer.

I have zero desire to go back to renting until it's time for nursing home/assisted living-type place for me.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> House maintenance and projects have taken up most of every single weekend of mine for the past few years. Mine come and go but it's no where near every weekend since I've purchased in 2019. What sort of things occupy this much time?

Not gp, but I bought a fixer-upper and it was at least weekends for the first two years, then slowed down quite a bit after that. Now it comes in fits and starts similar to you.

This is the answer - there are plenty of move-in ready, turn-key homes that require basically zero maintenance unless you want to remodel or change something, but those cost more (sometimes a lot more) than the ones that need more TLC or true fixer-uppers.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#363
I really like this analysis. Considering this is written for america, a lot of these points somewhat apply to germany. Over here homeownership is pretty difficult. I put that decision away until I'm 35 or 40 and absolutely have to stay in one place because of kids and so on. I feel like I have more psychological safety when I rent and can move away whenever I want to, have a pile of cash and investments that pay the rent for a decade. I can't wrap my head around pulling most of your savings into a loan and then paying more or equal monthly than what you would pay for rent...

I feel like renting your first 1-3 flats in different cities is a valuable learning experience. You will learn where you want to live, what is important in a flat, its layout and its utilities and materials. It will save you a ton of money longterm if you know how thick the walls, well isolated the windows, locality of things and many other facets have to be...

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#364

Ben Felix, a Canadian portfolio manager that does personal finance videos and podcast, has been arguing for years that rent versus buy is often a wash financially, and that you should make the decision for non-financial resasons. * recent 2026 video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU7v87EhDBI * 2025a: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4H9LL7A-nQ * 2025b: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBG-g1CKfgs * 2021: https://www…

If you can buy low and sell high it’s worth it. Especially if you’re positioned to buy when you can lock in low mortgage rates. Above 6% you might be better off putting your down payment into the stock market and renting. It’s also more likely that you’ll feel good about spending money to improve the home if you think you can get the money back when you sell. (And then you get to live in a more pleasant place for yea…

> If you can buy low and sell high it’s worth it.

Or, hear me out: buy low and rent high.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#365

The benefit of owning a home is almost always psychological, not financial. If you take the money you'd use for a down payment and mortgage and invest it instead (after paying rent) you end up in about the same place. But the psychological benefits can be huge. You have much greater control over the place you spend most of your time. You can change it to your liking. You don't have to worry about rent increases or ow…

> If you take the money you'd use for a down payment and mortgage and invest it instead (after paying rent) you end up in about the same place. That is not the right way to see it. If you have the cash to buy upfront, then yes, real estate is not that good an investment, unless you have a loaded portfolio already and want to diversify a bit, get some high inflation hedge, etc. The real value of buying a home is lever…

Love that the two most solid pro-homebuying points I've ever encountered (jedberg's about the psychological benefits, yours about leverage) immediately surface in an HN discussion.

It's probably worth making a closer comparison though:

* Buying a House on Loan: commit to paying off a $450k loan over 30 years at 5% interest, with an immediate $50k down payment and the home itself as collateral. So ~$2500/mo payments, another 400k in interest by the time you're done. Your home probably appreciates by that much in most markets, which gives you a million dollar asset at the end. In some good markets, it may appreciate by 3-4 times, which would mean you have a 1.5-2 million dollar asset.

* Pure Financial Investment: put $50k into a fund, add sustained regular $2500/mo contributions. Let's imagine that the fund averages a conservative 5% annual return and we do this for 30 years. The outcome should be... a bit above 2 million dollars.

All investment involves risk and variable outcomes, but the BHL plan probably has a more varied outcome. Parity may be as common as substantial profit.

The PFI plan, on the other hand, performs really well even considering conservative 5% returns: over 2 million dollars (minus 400k you would have probably paid in rent). Bump it to 8% returns and we're looking at 3 million, a performance even many good real estate markets couldn't match.

Its major problem is that you need to be disciplined about putting the chunky contributions in, which means you need to consistently have rent-payment-level disposable income to make this work. Many working people don't.

Leverage lets housing costs go to equity and interest payments, which is key leverage for people who don't have disposable investment income. But less key for people who do.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#366
post #353

Beyond financial costs, I was caught off guard at how much time home ownership took up. House maintenance and projects have taken up most of every single weekend of mine for the past few years. Part of it is simply that I bought a house with more space than the places I usually rented. More to clean, more to maintain, more things that can go wrong, etc. But the biggest thing is that I'm the only one in charge of main…

What maintenance is there to do exactly ?

There is an ever-expanding list of maintenance tasks depending on the age of the house and its systems, all with different periodicities. A roof will typically not need to be replaced very often (let's say once every 20 years), but cleaning gutters at least annually is a must because overflowing gutters can lead to foundation issues, rot, etc. Depending on the size of the yard and what vegetation it has, yardwork can be at least a couple of hours a week in the warmer months. Making sure drains are clear is good practice to avoid catastrophic failure. And there's always random things like a fence board that needs to get replaced, chipped door that could use repainting, trim that needs replacing, etc. Newer houses will have (hopefully) fewer of these menial tasks, but as houses age things inevitably need attention due to the fact that it has to weather the elements and daily use all the time.

How much an individual homeowner cares about the minor cosmetic things vary, but skipping out on regularly checking the major stuff can lead to incredibly expensive problems like flooded basements, structural issues, major leaks, etc.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#367

Buying a home is a hedge against inflation. Renting has no similar protections. Your choices are, "Pay the (increased) rent" or "Move"

There are cheaper ways to hedge inflation. Also, people with careers don’t really need to hedge inflation especially. In 1960 rent was about 10% of median income. Today it’s more like 30%. This might sound bad but in 1960 food was 30% of median income and today it’s around 10%. Prices are always relative, it’s impossible for everything to get cheaper. There’s no reason to assume rent is especially prone to this excep…

"people with careers don’t really need to hedge inflation especially"

This is like saying, "you don't need to hedge inflation as long as everything goes right"

You don't need to hedge inflation ... until you do.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#368

> I bought my home in Auburn, WA for $321k, and sold it a few years later for $333k. After all the costs to buy and sell it, I probably lost more money on it than I would have spent renting an apartment. Any half-competent realtor will tell you that if you aren't going to stay in a house for 3+ years you will probably lose money on closing costs/fees. Contrast this with my house, I stayed in it for ~6 years and the h…

We've been in our home for about 5 years now, but we bought down the interest rate as far as we could so our break-even point is still a year or so out, not counting appreciation. Our realtor told us over and over again than if there was any doubt we'd be in the house for 5 years we would very likely lose money selling it.

There will always be people who break even after 15 years, just like there will be people who hit the lottery and sell for 5x while the ink on their mortgage application is still wet. But 5-ish years on a standard 20% down no points 30 year mortgage seems like a good rule of thumb outside of VHCOL areas.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#369
For me, the biggest 'cost' seems to be peace of mind. I rent my place, and even thinking about all this home owner sh!te gives me a headache.

To each their own, and I'm probably pissing money away, but I want to live with the feeling that I can quit this 'housing subscription' (that's what it is, just another subscription) within a month and not even have to think about it.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#370

Buying a home is a hedge against inflation. Renting has no similar protections. Your choices are, "Pay the (increased) rent" or "Move"

Rent control changes the math on this. Obviously location dependent but it can have a significant effect.

Absolutely.

Other things that change the math:

- Only allowing individuals to rent living spaces (no corporations)

- Only allowing individuals to buy houses (no corporations)

- Not allowing corporations to buy influence in Washington DC

Anything that puts the focus back on what's the ethically and morally right thing to do for humans changes the math.

And don't get me wrong: I'm a capitalist. But for some reason, some capitalists really get upset with this kind of language.

I wonder why?

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