Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#91

Post by 7bit » Tue, May 26, 2026, 4:46 PM UTC

myrmidon wrote: post #6

There's a bunch of criticism, but this is in my view the only general approach that makes sense (globally) and should have been done 50 years ago already. IMO a big factor for the whole sub-replacement fertility in developed nations (and resulting demographic problems) is that the state has invalidated/replaced all the economical gain that families got from children (cheap "workers" and elder care), but the chld-rela…

The approach is completely backwards. You incentivise having kids, not punish those who do not have kids or worse, those who can't get kids.

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#92

Post by guruide » Tue, May 26, 2026, 4:47 PM UTC

qurren wrote: post #66

matchbok3 wrote: post #39

This is a challenging topic to discuss because (rightly) it's very personal. Sadly the fact of the matter is this: we need more children and young people to keep society functioning (and continually improve our quality of life). There is no other known way. So unfortunately the "free rider" problem needs to be addressed somehow. Of course, the "cruel" part is how it affects those who either can't have children, are g…

If you want to incentivize people to have kids, hand out $500K-1M to anyone who wants to have kids. Don't penalize those who don't. And yes, kids cost that much. I'm a senior level software engineer in the bay area. I don't have kids. I don't think I can afford them. I'm tired of people telling me I can afford them. The world works differently today. In the 1980's, if you had a stable job that let you leave at 5pm, y…

I have 4 kids and can say that they absolutely do not have to cost that much. Child care is legitimately costly until they reach school age (age 5), but if you use public schools, cook modest meals at home, recognize that kids will survive and even thrive without costly extra-curricular activities, and avoid cities with outrageous costs of living like San Francisco or New York City, then having children is quite affordable. I live in the Midwestern United States. I know many families who live very comfortably on less than $100k per year.

That isn’t to say you should have kids. That’s a really personal choice. And it can come with huge amounts of extra anxiety around job security, for sure. But there are tons of options for arranging life and work to make it happen if one really wants to.

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#93

Post by myrmidon » Tue, May 26, 2026, 4:48 PM UTC

hobofan wrote: post #15

myrmidon wrote: post #6

There's a bunch of criticism, but this is in my view the only general approach that makes sense (globally) and should have been done 50 years ago already. IMO a big factor for the whole sub-replacement fertility in developed nations (and resulting demographic problems) is that the state has invalidated/replaced all the economical gain that families got from children (cheap "workers" and elder care), but the chld-rela…

You are not wrong. But the reality of this government in Germany is that they are also cutting down on the assistance that parents receive. With both of those combined they are currently just redistributing wealth to the elderly that have created this mess.

IMO Germany is in a pretty tough spot, and lots of countries will run into similar problems because of demographics.

It is very difficult to diminish pension benefits that were promised 30 years ago (when the worker/retiree ration was 4:1 instead of like 2:1) and almost half your voters would be affected (>40% of voters are over 60).

Any "solution" is going to hurt and feel unfair to a bunch of people and it is very difficult to make "young-people-politics" when most of your voters are old (problems probably need to escalate more to achieve approval for anything that financially hurts retirees).

People sometimes like to point at wealth disparity as a real root cause for the floundering pension/elder care system, but even completely disowning the richest 10% of Germans would fund the pension system for less than a decade, so no easy solution from that direction, either.

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#94

Post by djoldman » Tue, May 26, 2026, 4:51 PM UTC

myrmidon wrote: post #6

There's a bunch of criticism, but this is in my view the only general approach that makes sense (globally) and should have been done 50 years ago already. IMO a big factor for the whole sub-replacement fertility in developed nations (and resulting demographic problems) is that the state has invalidated/replaced all the economical gain that families got from children (cheap "workers" and elder care), but the chld-rela…

> Society gains massively from future workers/tax payers

It seems to me that, all other things equal, future workers/tax payers will lead to economic increases proportional to their costs.

A reasonable forward looking plan / budget scales with the population size. Therefore there would be no need for these special one off exceptions and nudges.

All these little bandaids add up to complexity that necessitates more bandaids.

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#95

Post by turtlesdown11 » Tue, May 26, 2026, 4:52 PM UTC

matchbok3 wrote: post #51

outside2344 wrote: post #21

So the plan is to make the cost of living even more expensive for people without kids? Do they understand the problem in the first place? Many people can't afford to have kids.

It's the cost, but also the higher expectations of living nowadays. Social media, phones, computers, trips, etc. The actual monetary cost of a child is high, for sure. But many people put that number higher due to lifestyle choices, not need. Social media certainly doesn't help.

right, its the phones and computers driving the high cost of raising a human being for 18 years + /s

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#96

Post by politelemon » Tue, May 26, 2026, 4:52 PM UTC

matchbok3 wrote: post #39

This is a challenging topic to discuss because (rightly) it's very personal. Sadly the fact of the matter is this: we need more children and young people to keep society functioning (and continually improve our quality of life). There is no other known way. So unfortunately the "free rider" problem needs to be addressed somehow. Of course, the "cruel" part is how it affects those who either can't have children, are g…

A good way to work through that is by not framing people as free riders in the first place.

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#97

Post by Projectiboga » Tue, May 26, 2026, 4:55 PM UTC

hobofan wrote: post #15

myrmidon wrote: post #6

There's a bunch of criticism, but this is in my view the only general approach that makes sense (globally) and should have been done 50 years ago already. IMO a big factor for the whole sub-replacement fertility in developed nations (and resulting demographic problems) is that the state has invalidated/replaced all the economical gain that families got from children (cheap "workers" and elder care), but the chld-rela…

You are not wrong. But the reality of this government in Germany is that they are also cutting down on the assistance that parents receive. With both of those combined they are currently just redistributing wealth to the elderly that have created this mess.

Some couples are infertile so this discriminates against them.

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#98

Post by myrmidon » Tue, May 26, 2026, 4:56 PM UTC

SkiFire13 wrote: post #78

necro wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the thinking is that if you had kids you created future cows for the tax plantation so you contributed more to the country.

But I'm paying taxes for my pension, and my kids will pay taxes for theirs. I know that the economics don't actually work like this, but this is the social contract.

You need to pay taxes and have kids for the numbers to work out.

If your pension benefits are calculated based on a 4 workers/retiree ratio, but then your whole generation has like 1 kid per family then the system will obviously break down...

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#99

Post by guruide » Tue, May 26, 2026, 5:00 PM UTC

x3ro wrote: post #60

matchbok3 wrote: post #39

This is a challenging topic to discuss because (rightly) it's very personal. Sadly the fact of the matter is this: we need more children and young people to keep society functioning (and continually improve our quality of life). There is no other known way. So unfortunately the "free rider" problem needs to be addressed somehow. Of course, the "cruel" part is how it affects those who either can't have children, are g…

If you want people to have children make it an attractive life choice, or even a viable option. A centrally located apartment in a desirable city with the space to house a family of 3-4 is out of reach for a very large part of the population, financially. That’s _before_ you even consider all of the other costs of having children. Meanwhile our chancellor talks of 70h+ work weeks, while spending hundreds of billions…

I’m not sure why a central location or a desirable city would be required? If that is more important than having children to someone, by all means, they should make those choices. But if they really want children, like I dreamed of since I was a teenager, then accepting a less costly living arrangement and lifestyle seems like a trivial sacrifice. I sometimes would rather live in a more expensive area, but I definitely would not trade any of my 4 children in order to do that.

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#100

Post by myrmidon » Tue, May 26, 2026, 5:01 PM UTC

abc123abc123 wrote: post #57

outside2344 wrote: post #21

So the plan is to make the cost of living even more expensive for people without kids? Do they understand the problem in the first place? Many people can't afford to have kids.

The machine needs more tax payers to keep politicians flying around the world in private jets. Produce tax slaves people, produce them now!

This is reductive, and incorrect. You simply need working-age people to run stuff, full stop. Approaching a 1:1 ratio of workers/retirees is simply unsustainable (yet), for very obvious reasons.

While wealth disparity is also a problem, solving it would NOT solve this one: In Germany, completely disowning (!) the richest 10% (!!) would not even pay for a decade of pensions.