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Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

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Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#61

Post by bushwart »

bigballsbjorn wrote: post #48
ahtihn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people can't afford to have kids Wrong. Poor people have 0 problems having kids. People can afford kids, they don't want to compromise on lifestyle.

almost always the case especially in germany where you are already incentivised with super low income taxes, free kindergarten and a shit load of other payments from the goverment. its basically impossible to be poor enough not to afford children unless you are doing it intentionally.

I wasn't aware that Germany had super low income taxes. It is certainly possible to game the welfare system and many people do, but if you want a decent standard of living then you need to be employed.

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#62

Post by [deleted] »

ahtihn wrote: post #34
outside2344 wrote: post #21

So the plan is to make the cost of living even more expensive for people without kids? Do they understand the problem in the first place? Many people can't afford to have kids.

> Many people can't afford to have kids Wrong. Poor people have 0 problems having kids. People can afford kids, they don't want to compromise on lifestyle.

[deleted]

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#63

Post by matchbok3 »

nekzn wrote: post #35
suddenlybananas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to incentivize people to have kids.

They could make not having kids more expensive than having them and I still wouldn’t have them. Most people I know with kids can’t afford them and still have them. And most people I know with money don’t have them. In a way it seems wealth is inversely correlated to having kids. It’s not about money, it’s about having interesting stuff to do with your life, and having the education to know what a terrible economic de…

What does "afford" mean in these cases? Do the kids have clothes? Food? Vacation?

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#64

Post by bigballsbjorn »

ahtihn wrote: post #34
outside2344 wrote: post #21

So the plan is to make the cost of living even more expensive for people without kids? Do they understand the problem in the first place? Many people can't afford to have kids.

> Many people can't afford to have kids Wrong. Poor people have 0 problems having kids. People can afford kids, they don't want to compromise on lifestyle.

children will massively compromise your lifestyle, not just financially but they require a lot of "labor" from you. this is probably the most important piece of the social contract and if you are breaking it you should be penalized.

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#65

Post by flextheruler »

ahtihn wrote: post #34
outside2344 wrote: post #21

So the plan is to make the cost of living even more expensive for people without kids? Do they understand the problem in the first place? Many people can't afford to have kids.

> Many people can't afford to have kids Wrong. Poor people have 0 problems having kids. People can afford kids, they don't want to compromise on lifestyle.

Then why are birth rates falling across all income levels in all countries? Please take the time to research your position.

"This perception, however, is false. In most human societies, poverty does not predict higher fertility, and well-to-do families often have the highest fertility. When families in America have more money, they tend to have more children. The stereotype of fertility being skewed towards low-income women is a product of basically two data analysis errors: 1) failure to control for important underlying cultural stratification, and 2) failure to adequately deal with the relationship between age, income, and fertility."

https://ifstudies.org/blog/more-money-more-babies-whats-the-...

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#66

Post by qurren »

matchbok3 wrote: post #39

This is a challenging topic to discuss because (rightly) it's very personal. Sadly the fact of the matter is this: we need more children and young people to keep society functioning (and continually improve our quality of life). There is no other known way. So unfortunately the "free rider" problem needs to be addressed somehow. Of course, the "cruel" part is how it affects those who either can't have children, are g…

If you want to incentivize people to have kids, hand out $500K-1M to anyone who wants to have kids. Don't penalize those who don't.

And yes, kids cost that much.

I'm a senior level software engineer in the bay area. I don't have kids. I don't think I can afford them. I'm tired of people telling me I can afford them. The world works differently today. In the 1980's, if you had a stable job that let you leave at 5pm, you could more or less handle kids.

Today, leaving at 5pm means risking PIP and not having an income; your company may lay off people randomly without notice; your rents could go up 10-20% unexpectedly; groceries could double in price over a couple years; you basically need to be working round the clock to not get PIPed and even sustain an income. And if you work around the clock you also need cash to hire nannies because you don't have the time to raise them yourself. As such I wouldn't even think about kids in this world without having saved up the full sum of my expenses AND their expenses for their ENTIRE life until 21 years old in CASH before even having the kid. We just don't have the job security today.

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#67

Post by saalweachter »

qurren wrote: post #66
matchbok3 wrote: post #39

This is a challenging topic to discuss because (rightly) it's very personal. Sadly the fact of the matter is this: we need more children and young people to keep society functioning (and continually improve our quality of life). There is no other known way. So unfortunately the "free rider" problem needs to be addressed somehow. Of course, the "cruel" part is how it affects those who either can't have children, are g…

If you want to incentivize people to have kids, hand out $500K-1M to anyone who wants to have kids. Don't penalize those who don't. And yes, kids cost that much. I'm a senior level software engineer in the bay area. I don't have kids. I don't think I can afford them. I'm tired of people telling me I can afford them. The world works differently today. In the 1980's, if you had a stable job that let you leave at 5pm, y…

> If you want to incentivize people to have kids, hand out $500K-1M to anyone who wants to have kids. Don't penalize those who don't.

Where does the money come from?

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#68

Post by enachtry »

dude250711 wrote: post #19
bpodgursky wrote: post #4

Every rapidly aging country (most of them) will need to either do something like this, or deal with a total collapse of social services.

What about redistribution of housing and readjustment of older pensions?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#69

Post by lostmsu »

nekzn wrote: post #35
suddenlybananas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to incentivize people to have kids.

They could make not having kids more expensive than having them and I still wouldn’t have them. Most people I know with kids can’t afford them and still have them. And most people I know with money don’t have them. In a way it seems wealth is inversely correlated to having kids. It’s not about money, it’s about having interesting stuff to do with your life, and having the education to know what a terrible economic de…

> it’s about having interesting stuff to do with your life

This is the conclusion I came to as well. I do have kids.

So I wholly agree with the sibling comment "compromise on lifestyle"

Re: Germany news: Childfree adults to pay more for elder care

#70

Post by nekzn »

matchbok3 wrote: post #63
nekzn wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could make not having kids more expensive than having them and I still wouldn’t have them. Most people I know with kids can’t afford them and still have them. And most people I know with money don’t have them. In a way it seems wealth is inversely correlated to having kids. It’s not about money, it’s about having interesting stuff to do with your life, and having the education to know what a terrible economic de…

What does "afford" mean in these cases? Do the kids have clothes? Food? Vacation?

That’s as if, in a conversation about the necessity of owning a car to buy groceries, you asked whether being able to afford a car means owning a Toyota or a Maserati.
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