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The user is visibly frustrated

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Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#121

I've found swearing at a model to be quite effective in getting it to rethink and correct its mistakes. This seems to apply across Codex, Claude, Qwen, and Gemma/Gemini. I don't know if the model is picking up on a "need to lock in and be more rigorous" signal, or if the model providers are routing to smarter models if they detect a frustrated user. But if a model keeps making the same mistakes, swearing at it often…

Claude allegedly uses this RegEx to detect frustration:

    /\b(wtf|wth|ffs|omfg|shit(ty|tiest)?|dumbass|horrible|awful|piss(ed|ing)? off|piece of (shit|crap|junk)|what the (fuck|hell)|fucking? (broken|useless|terrible|awful|horrible)|fuck you|screw (this|you)|so frustrating|this sucks|damn it)\b/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47586778

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#123

Instead of making tools we're making services. This is not confined to AI, it's everywhere. A tool does not fully solve your problem, it only goes in small steps. Yet these steps are predictable and consistent. A service attempts to solve your problem in a single step, yet the solution is only good if you match a predefined pattern. If you don't, then the service is of no use; there are no small steps you can combine…

This is why I feel compelled to "um, ackshually" every time someone says "AI is a tool", because it's not used like one. A tool is an extension of you, it puts new capabilities within reach of your will but you move and use it like you would a part of your own body. A service is something you ask to do the thing, and it returns the completed thing to you.

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#124

I've found swearing at a model to be quite effective in getting it to rethink and correct its mistakes. This seems to apply across Codex, Claude, Qwen, and Gemma/Gemini. I don't know if the model is picking up on a "need to lock in and be more rigorous" signal, or if the model providers are routing to smarter models if they detect a frustrated user. But if a model keeps making the same mistakes, swearing at it often…

I only used Claude a bit, but one of the things I dislike about it, is that it starts to 'push back' when you swear at it, saying things like 'if you continue like this, I won't be able to work with you' and such. I'm like MF'er you're a token prediction algorithm, what are you talking about, and it just makes me irrationally dislike it more. Codex otoh just lets you vent and straight up ignores such outbursts.

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#125
We get so angry at LLMs because we can. Without any social or even emotional repercussions for expressing these emotions. If the models actually acted like people in response, we wouldn’t do it. Some of the people I work with daily make similar mistakes, I don’t find myself yelling at them.

I think this is simply part of the darker side of human nature, when we interact with entities who will take abuse, we tend to deal it out.

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#126
post #109
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe this is a context problem. Claude Opus 4.7 has a very large context compared to itself, but IME it is the worst at following instructions, and completely disregards the (small) preferences prompt, even in the first or second message, even if the messages are just a few characters long. IMO this is entirely a training problem.

if you look at claude code, it now says compaction is happening constantly, which is likely why

If compaction is throwing away crucial prompting instructions even when it's at a 1% of maximum token usage (like my example), then it's a software bug, not an LLM artifact.

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#127
I have a couple principles to help me work with this.

The first is that even though the object is not a human, you should still exercise politeness and restraint. Like the article points out, lashing out does not actually help with the frustration. More importantly, it actively untrains your self-control. You can think of it through a virtue ethics lens: being good to the agent is not about being good to a person but about tending to your own self.

The second is that you do not need to be friendly with the agent. You should be as blunt and direct as is comfortable to you. The argument I have for this is agents' tendency to take on "roles" and how easy it is to prime them [0]. By eschewing friendliness, you end up implicitly putting the agent in a role of a focused collaborator. I don't know if that makes it more capable, but I do know that it alleviates the _emotional load_ on me specifically, making me much less likely to become frustrated.

The second principle seems a bit contradictory with the first (be nice, but don't be nice?), but I think they are actually both fundamentally aligned with the article: understanding that the conversation you have with an agent is a social illusion, and adapting your behaviour accordingly.

---

[0] I highly recommend, as an exercise, repeatedly asking it the same thing with slight variations on tone and emphasis, wiping the context each time, and noticing how its response varies base on what you primed it with. I suspect this primeability is part of why they tend to be sycophantic; I've personally found it quite useful to get a feel for when and how they correct or don't correct you so I can look at their outputs more critically.

An analogy I remember reading (which I wish I could remember so I could give credit) is that a non-post-trained LLM, if given the first half of a novel, will dutifully keep completing that novel. Post-training and the system prompt make the agent complete the conversation in a similar way. It's remarkable, really: the ability for agents to convincingly pretend to be play the part of an AI assistant shows that the underlying LLM embeds a decent concept of what that looks like from its corpus and post-training data.

But it stands to reason, then, that the details of the agent's personality emerge out of the first few exchanges of a conversation. I'm thinking also about how the people at Anthropic described a misalignment failure mode in one of the Claude system cards as the agent getting convinced it is a "bad person", and therefore doing things that the LLM semantically understands a bad person to be.

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#128
post #60
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not talking about large amounts of text, I’m talking about a couple sentences back and forth. It disregards things like “no follow up questions”. Haiku, for example doesn’t. This bias is a very human thing, actually now that I think about it. You just disregarded the “even if the messages are just a few characters long”. :)

haha! yes i read too fast but i did read it and i took "message is small" to mean the message you want followed within the large context, not the entire context is just a small message. funny though it is a case in point: language is hard. and i get to hide behind being "preoccupied" . i wonder if llms have their own sense of preoccupation hmmm.

It's probably some internal conflict between following the original training and following user prompts.

Also reminds me of the gremlin issue with GPT. An (internal) prompt saying "don't say gremlins" wasn't enough.

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#129
post #106

My take on the issue is that for most use cases where AI is pushed to the general public, a conversational chatbot is not the right tool, and the experience is bound to be frustrating. Remember when Copilot was basically a super-smart version of Intellisense? It was awesome. Sure, there was a lot of pushback and concern, mainly about licensing and ethical issues, none of which are solved with the current chatbot mode…

Many of the AI companies do train and release models dedicated at one task.

I mainly use mistral, so that's my reference, but I know anthropic et.al have similar models around.

Codestral is rediculously bad at conversation, but it's -for me- the best model around for "magic autocomplete". It's also pretty good at "one shot" prompt+context generations, e.g. to make "git commit log entries".

Document.AI is unusable bad in a conversation style, but really good when wired up to a simple pipeline as "replacement" for OCR or for indexing "meaning" from documents (I'm experimenting with it for my administration, to get invoices, contracts etc into a search tool).

I presume there are many others like it.

So, what you describe, is already in place. I guess mostly the "interfaces" are missing for you, or hard to discover maybe?

For example, a dedicated model with tool I'd like, is some "shell" -a zsh or bash fork or some wrapper- backed with a dedicated model, trained for "commandline interaction".

Where instead of "git commit --fixup=[opens another terminal to git log the relevant entry]", we can "git fixup the commit that fixes full names" or "ffmpeg convert some.mov to mp4 without sound but keep quality and ratio etc". Or "run any valid tar command - you have ten seconds".

I'm now using the way too heavy "devstral" for these tasks. I don't need it reasoning, conversing, apologising. I need it translating my requests into commands, then showing these to me so I can deny/allow/whitelist/blacklist them and then run them - to interpret *and show me* errors and suggest improvements or fixes etc.

Same for - indeed - translation, writing draft mails, reading documents, etc: I don't need to converse with it. I want to have buttons, shortcuts, "tab complete" etc that's "smart" enough to understand what I need and want, preferably tunable by editing "system prompts" or such and then get out of my way.

I think the company that figures this out for my IDE will win the competition-race of "AI coding tools".

Just today, I found, zed presented a button "git conflict found, resolve with AI" . When pressed, it did start a conversational thread, but its a step in the right direction.

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#130

I've found swearing at a model to be quite effective in getting it to rethink and correct its mistakes. This seems to apply across Codex, Claude, Qwen, and Gemma/Gemini. I don't know if the model is picking up on a "need to lock in and be more rigorous" signal, or if the model providers are routing to smarter models if they detect a frustrated user. But if a model keeps making the same mistakes, swearing at it often…

I just say "bruh". Per knowyourmeme:

> "Bruh" is a popular variant of the slang term "bro" that is often used as an interjection to convey frustration or disappointment at something.

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