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The user is visibly frustrated

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Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#91

Post by mycocola »

apsurd wrote: post #72
mycocola wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The similarity to human interaction is irrelevant. No one apologises to a potato being peeled, nor compliments it for doing a great job being mashed.

I'm willing to bet you've never sent a single word to a potato ever. And you send thousands to an llm. This is not about llm sentience. this is about the habit and skill of communication.

The comparison fails because I don't send numbers to my potatoes either, but I do send thousands to calculators without a please and thank you.

Practicing communications skills with LLMs I can get, but asserting that people who don't are playing god? Getting off on power?

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#93

Post by fransje26 »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #13
nnevatie wrote: post #6

> WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU DO??? For me, this doesn't require using an AI agent/model, even. Just using Windows and watching it freeze its File Explorer for the nth time does it for me. How did we end up here were the software/OS stack is so shit it can barely be used for the most trivial things, is wildly beyond me.

Screensaver mode. I start typing my password. .. 10s later the password box appears and I have to do it again. Cue exasperated: "You can compute billions of instructions per second and yet I wait for you."

That's not a bug. It's a (safety) feature.

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#94

Post by aa-jv »

anal_reactor wrote: post #84
aa-jv wrote: post #74

Its kind of astonishing to see years of traditional software engineering practices being tossed aside in the rush for the Latest Cool New Thing™ ... have people really forgotten that you have to apply a workflow to software development, in order to have quality software? You don't just write it, compile it, run it and ship it - do you? Surely, in the rush to become as agile as possible, folks haven't forgotten their…

> You cannot just ignore natural laws and assume, because you 'know better', your software will 'be better'. And whether we like it or not, all software follows a philosophically natural law, which has evolved over decades of human attention. Ignoring these natural laws (...) is only gonna get you butt-hurt, kiddo. If only you could just read these words back to yourself. Designing perfect software is NOT the case 90…

Its an utter fallacy to state that you have to stop doing quality processes if you want to deliver software, rapidly.

Abandoning quality review steps only seems to be 'more efficient' if you're utterly crap at doing quality processes in the first place - but, the more you do them, the better you get at it, faster - so really you're just saying "people who are crap at doing quality-control processes on their software don't want to have to get better at doing quality-control processes, because it just slows them down" .. effectively ignoring the time wasted in bug triage and other user-unfriendly experiences that result from this lack of quality process, down the line...

So I don't buy your argument. I think you might just be crap at software quality processes and don't want to be reminded of it. Maybe you make donuts - some of us actually serve healthy software to our users.

And many of us do it just as quickly as the guy throwing pieces away that he doesn't know how to use, effectively. Albeit, with much higher quality results, naturally.

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#96

Post by pflenker »

One skill that I still possess and that LLMs haven't been able to replace (yet) is to ask good questions, for example:

- Rephrasing the original question to validate my understanding - Asking "why" a sufficient amount of times until I understand where the other party is coming from - Asking open questions aimed at generating insights

et cetera.

Instead, LLMs (often badly) guess what the background of the question may be, answer with that in mind and find it very difficult to let go of what they have made up.

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#97

Post by fransje26 »

krackers wrote: post #9
wood_spirit wrote: post #7

I think we’d get just as frustrated with a dumb robot. It’s the dumbness that is the problem.

You'd get equally frustrated with a teammate who decided to delete failing tests when you told them to fix the build breakage.

You mean the trick some environmental/health agencies like to pull when dangerous pollutants are above the set maximum limit? :-)

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#98

Post by jofzar »

cadamsdotcom wrote: post #40

You need to automate the pointing out of mistakes. Create your own linters, your own check scripts. Hook them to git pre-commit, either yourself or with husky or python pre-commit. The agent should never finish its work with dumb mistakes still in it. If it does.. you need more checks. Anything repetitive should be automated - even slapping your forgetful coding agent on the wrist…

My experience is that the dumb mistakes it makes are the one where it believes it's correct, not that it fails the linter.

Re: The user is visibly frustrated

#100

Post by apsurd »

mycocola wrote: post #91
apsurd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to bet you've never sent a single word to a potato ever. And you send thousands to an llm. This is not about llm sentience. this is about the habit and skill of communication.

The comparison fails because I don't send numbers to my potatoes either, but I do send thousands to calculators without a please and thank you. Practicing communications skills with LLMs I can get, but asserting that people who don't are playing god? Getting off on power?

The criticism comes because people self-share how they berate the agents, argue and curse at them. It's right here in the comment section. one comment speaks of causing physical (simulated i guess) thousand year pain as a means of obedience.

it's weird.

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