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Using AI to write better code more slowly

nolanlawson.com

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Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#131

Post by jcgrillo »

bottlepalm wrote: post #119
habinero wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mid sized features often mean tearing up many layers of code across the stack to add in some sort of new capability What? No, it shouldn't. I've worked on a lot of codebases and if you have to do this, something is very, very wrong.

Nothing wrong at all. Some features you can bolt on, and some features fundamentally change how a system works requiring changes at many different levels of the stack. Happens all the time.

It happens in poorly factored codebases. If you find it happening that's a sign you need to refactor. If you find it happening repeatedly in the same codebase that means you failed to refactor properly the first time.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#132

Post by didericis »

bottlepalm wrote: post #105
aomix wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking the problem to death with the AI before implementation is a nice zone for me. I feel productive, get good results out of the AI, and still largely understand the code. That’s the part of the AI revolution that I feel has made me a better engineer because I argue about design and architecture all day with a robot.

One strategy I use in the planning phase is even when I know how I'd implement the solution, I ask the Claude/Codex how they would solve the problem or implement the feature without giving them any clues - and then compare their solutions to my own. Often I am pleasantly surprised by alternative ways of doing things and ideas that we integrate into the final design.

Same. I've been creating "research" documents where I let it do a freeform survey of possible solutions/have sketch out it's own solution. I'll then sketch out a plan based on what I think is good or what I think it missed, and then I'll have it interrogate me for a final PRD document. It then implements the feature in reviewable chunks, and I'll give it feedback or tweak the PRD doc as needed.

Finally feel like I have a good workflow where I can fully benefit from these things without sacrificing my understanding of what they're doing.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#134

Post by dash2 »

nullsanity wrote: post #77
qsera wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I argue about design and architecture all day with a robot. You will outgrow it at some point.

Its like that phase people go through where they argue with morons on reddit, and then one day grow up and realize that most of these people are unemployed/underemployed terminally online nobodies aren't ever going to learn anything, and even if they did it wouldn't impact the world since they were just some below average hobbyist anyway and aren't in charge of anything more important than a box of paperclips.

Ah, if it’s a robot in charge of the paperclips you need to watch out a bit.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#135

Post by maximinus_thrax »

afavour wrote: post #25
rootnod3 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then Anthropic has an outage and you what...have a coffee break until then? All that time babysitting the AIs just to be a little faster but probably with less knowledge/control over what they did?

I don’t think you’re quite getting what OP is describing. I work in a similar way… I am aware of all the code being written. If Claude had an outage I could write it myself. It would just take longer. You say “all that time” babysitting AIs but in my experience it isn’t that much time, if anything the back and forth at the planning stages is more productive than when I’m doing it by myself because I’m being asked que…

> I am aware of all the code being written.

Define 'aware'. The volume of code for a feature/system to make it worth using a more complex workflow such as this one, is definitely larger than what a human can even briefly review and build a mental model about the inner workings within a reasonable amount of time. Reasonable meaning not considerable delaying the process. When deadlines loom and management adds pressure, this 'awareness' is the first thing that goes out the window.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#136

Post by teaearlgraycold »

TACIXAT wrote: post #30

This article doesn't address writing code with AI, just code review. My issue with agentic coding is that I make numerous micro-architectural decisions while programming. I almost never have a full spec up front and develop one as I consider what I am writing. When using Claude Code or Codex, that is all gone. Claude Code is extremely eager to reach the end goal to the point that it feels like a fever dream to write…

A lot of programming work is well represented in the training data. For that kind of stuff there’s not much to do regarding architectural decisions. I love to run the LLMs on auto for that work. But for anything not well represented in the training data, which could be anything from mundane stuff in PyQT or a truly novel application, keep them on a short leash or forget them altogether.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#137

Post by locknitpicker »

bottlepalm wrote: post #114
halfcat wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you stay aware of all code being written? Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve never understood how one understands from reading code. Yes you can understand what that code does, but not why it was done that way instead of a different way. In the end I only understand it deeply if I end up writing it. Chatting through it is helpful to me, but having AI crank out code loses all of that context pretty quickly. I’m not d…

If you can't understand why the code is done in a certain way from reading it then the code is missing comments or needs to be refactored. Even code you write yourself, given enough time, you will forget the why unless you wrote comments. In a way comments are as much for you as they are for others. Even before AI, understanding code you didn't write is essential to working on a team of other developers. If you can't…

> If you can't understand why the code is done in a certain way from reading it then the code is missing comments or needs to be refactored.

Code is never missing contexts. If what your code is doing is not obvious to the reader, it is bad code that needs to be fixed. Things like cryptic low-level expressions should be extracted to helper functions with descriptive names or even extracted into a class, and classes need to comply with the single responsibility principle.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#138

Post by locknitpicker »

well_ackshually wrote: post #46
efitz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you only have one AI window open, you’re doing it wrong. You task swap to another window/agent, get it working on something, rinse and repeat. I can keep 4 busy most of the time. When I task swap I also check in on what the other agents are doing to make sure they’re on track, not blocked and not struggling.

congratulations on your soon to be coming burnout. Keeping that many tasks in parallel, running all the time will kill you.

> congratulations on your soon to be coming burnout.

Multitasking does not mean burnout. It just means you are not wasting time while idling. Multitasking was not invented for AI coding assistants. What do you think feature branches are used for?

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#139

Post by BillStrong »

qsera wrote: post #127
vasco wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you guys don't understand is that you don't argue with people or robots to teach them. You argue to teach yourself. Until you get out of that mindset, indeed a lot of conversation will seem useless, be it people or robots.

>You argue to teach yourself. Oh. I am aware. It is not that deep. But who you argues with still matter. There was a point where I have abandoned Reddit and HN. I came back to HN because people here also seem to have grown up. Reddit stays mostly the same. I credit the moderation here for that, I mean allowing people to grow out of the echo chamber.

It does to an extent. One thing I will give AI, because of the nature of LLMs, you are essentially arguing with the median level of the input that trained the model. So, for someone new to the subject, you get access to patterns that will bring them up to a certain level.

Getting past that is problem we face now.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#140

Post by pdyc »

ciconia wrote: post #118

To me the blocker with using coding agents is having to rely on a paid external service. Are there any local models that are good enough to be used for coding?

depends on how clear your instructions are, if there is no ambiguity you can even use gemma4 e2b/e4b.
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