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Omarchy Is Not A Distro

abyss.fish

141–150 of 186 posts

Re: Omarchy Is Not A Distro

#141

I'm old, is "ricing" (along with "ricer", "rice burners", "rice rockets", etc.) no longer racist?

I think most of the people who use the term in the context of Linux desktops don't know the term's origin (or at least don't stop to think about it), so the possibility of it being racist never occurs to them.

Doesn't it come from car culture? Where (mostly young) people put giant wings and shiny wheels on a clapped out Honda Civic to make it look like a race car. I always thought that "rice" was an intentional misspelling of "race" (as in "race car", which, hold on a minute, I guess would also make it race... ist?)

Re: Omarchy Is Not A Distro

#142
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the discussion about "is it a distribution or not" is very interesting, but I think the discussion about "should we make clear that this _thing_ is just a bunch of config files rather than the usual work one would expect behind what was traditionally called linux distributions". And I know Omarchy is not the only one out there doing something similar, and that there is a spectrum. It is not a problem. T…

It's a way to distribute Linux (the kernel) and userland packages in a way you can install. Therefore it's a Linux distribution.

As I've said, I think the discussion about the "real definition of a distribution" is not interesting. It's like idiots who think they are smart when they say "tomato are technically a fruit".

What I'm interested in, is obtaining a system that allows me to run Linux and userland reliably and trust-worthily. I don't know about you, but I don't compile all my software one by one myself after checking the source code. So, I prefer not relying on people who don't display much understanding on how to distribute a system reliably and trust-worthily. If someone is "just" making their own "flavor" of desktop and distribute it and call it "a distribution" without even noticing that such a package is lacking a lot of things that traditional distributions are doing, these people are just not mature enough to be trusted to do a good job. (and of course, being a "traditional distributions" is not "good enough", it is a necessary but not sufficient condition)

Don't get me wrong, they can distribute their flavor as much as they want, I'm happy with that. But if they act as if their stuff is the same as what is traditionally called "linux distribution" or if they are not smart (or honest) enough to mention that it's different, then 1) they are not mature enough, 2) it is worth informing newcomers or naive people about that.

It's a bit like a company that build cars, and then you have a guy that buy some of these cars, change one or two things on the dashboard and paint the car in a different color, and call themselves a car manufacturer. Nothing wrong with selling customised cars, but it is dangerous to act as if the guy is a proper manufacturer when they don't have either the capacity, the knowledge or the expertise to provide a good reliable car.

Re: Omarchy Is Not A Distro

#143
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of the people who use the term in the context of Linux desktops don't know the term's origin (or at least don't stop to think about it), so the possibility of it being racist never occurs to them.

Doesn't it come from car culture? Where (mostly young) people put giant wings and shiny wheels on a clapped out Honda Civic to make it look like a race car. I always thought that "rice" was an intentional misspelling of "race" (as in "race car", which, hold on a minute, I guess would also make it race... ist?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_burner

Re: Omarchy Is Not A Distro

#144
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not what I'm saying. I'm not saying that they should "solve my problem", I'm saying that their reputation should be reviewed negatively if they "create a distribution to solve a problem that has no reason to be solve by creating a distribution". Not that it is a very very bad thing, just that it shows that they are not really good at what they do.

'I'm saying that their reputation should be reviewed negatively if they "create a distribution to solve a problem that has no reason to be solve by creating a distribution".' Why? People can do as they wish and you can use it or not.

What? Why are you saying "why"?

I'm just saying that I trust people who know what they are doing, and if there is someone who does a "superficial" job* but present it as if it is the "whole deal", then they don't really understand what it takes to the whole deal and therefore they don't know what they are doing.

*: I don't mean "superficial" pejoratively, just that a "traditional" distribution does wayyyyyy more than what is done in Omarchy.

And, sure, they can do as they wish, and the consequence is that they get the reputation they deserve. You cannot say "sure, I poop in a bucket and pretend it is a good solution because my toilet is blocked, but people can do as they wish and you can visit my house or not", and I fully agree with that AND I will still say "the reputation of this guy should be reviewed negatively, as it is clear they have a low understanding of how to deal with basic plumbing". You cannot just answer me "What! How dare you to say this guy reputation should be reviewed negatively".

Re: Omarchy Is Not A Distro

#145
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Linux distribution offers a good out-of-the-box experience with anything outside of XFCE, GNOME, or KDE Plasma. On the other end, these alternative WMs lack all of the shell features that people expect from a desktop experience. I run regular Arch with Niri and Noctalia Shell, which is based on Quick Shell. It is a pretty solid experience. But even with Quick Shell, which has taken a lot of the pain out of closing…

>My question for people is whether their objection has to do with Omarchy itself or with the person or people behind it both because as I said there's no distinction with a project like this, and I'll give you a technical example for this. The manual which I briefly read through says this on the monitor configuration: "Omarchy assumes you're running on a 2x-capable retina-class display by default[...] It's what you'd…

> If you want stuff working out of the box for non-technical people give them an Ubuntu LTS release, not window managers on release version 0.x. maintained by people in a discord

"Technical people" covers a vast variety of people. I can and have configured many different non-mainstream WMs and implemented different bars, and found workarounds to different issues that arise from them, both in wayland and X11. A person can be just as technical as I am and still have no interest nor desire to set that all up, but still want to explore or use the paradigm shift that something like a tiling or scrolling WM offer.

The problem is that these paradigms people find appealing aren't decoupled. You can't just drop it in to your current desktop because the window management is so tightly coupled to the compositor. You can try things like PaperWM, of course, but you don't really get to experience Niri unless you install it, and then figure out how to handle everything else you need in a way that you'd want.

If Omarchy used GNOME or Plasma, there's zero chance it'd have taken off in the same way it has. Yes, it is definitely a case of its virality being tied to an influencer, but it isn't ultimately why someone would stick with it. It gets rid of a lot of the gatekeeping that exists. Anyone that can install a linux distro can install Omarchy and get a fully functional system. That is something we need more of, not less.

Re: Omarchy Is Not A Distro

#146
post #117
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not what I'm saying. I'm not saying that they should "solve my problem", I'm saying that their reputation should be reviewed negatively if they "create a distribution to solve a problem that has no reason to be solve by creating a distribution". Not that it is a very very bad thing, just that it shows that they are not really good at what they do.

Its exactly what you’re saying. You have a different problem and a different opinion. And your conclusion is that „they are not good at what they are doing“ I’m really no DHH fan, but i think he knows what he’s doing and is also good at it.

I don't have any problem (I don't use hyprland).

The situation is simple, I'm just saying to people the following: Whatever you call what this thing is, it does not look like the people doing it have a strong grip of what is usually considered important in "traditional distribution". If you don't care about these aspects, great for you, go ahead. If you don't even notice that these aspects are a thing or that this distribution is different on this point, then maybe it is worth for me (and others) to bring that out. Maybe for these people it is useful (and maybe it is not useful for other, in which case, I hope they will just act like an adult and don't complain that someone mention something useful for people who are not them).

I was reacting to someone saying that "Omarchy solved my problem with hyprland when no one else was able to, so it is an indication on how good of a distribution it is". I think it is the point: a "linux distribution" is there to solve a totally different problem. If you have difficulty installing hyprland, the logical solution is to provide tools to help installing hyprland, tools that can work in any distribution. If you go into a strange solution instead (such as ending up building a brand new distribution around it and saying "it's open source, you can always extract the specific code if you don't want the distribution"), then it is just natural that people wonder if you are really understanding how it works.

As for DHH, I don't know: being a good developer is quite different from what it takes to build a reliable distribution, and it looks like he is very prone to think that because he is a good developer, he is good at everything. If anything, the fact that he has no grasp at all at what people talk about when they talk about these kind of thing, it makes me think he knows even less what he is doing.

Re: Omarchy Is Not A Distro

#147
post #136
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not what I'm saying, of course. I'm saying that if they ended up shipping the house because the house contains their new useful microwave but forget to ship the microwave independently, it is something that should decrease their reputation, it looks silly and amateurish. Of course, I'm not saying that they should solve my problem for me. Simply, they are doing things in a complicated way either uselessly or eit…

That is exactly what you are saying. "Oh there's a half furnished house. Silly amateur house builder, why they don't just sell microwaves?" ?!

What? Not at all what I'm saying. The whole thread started with "a solution to install hyprland", which is "the microwave". My expectation is that someone who knows how to fix a microwave will also know how to distribute it without the whole house.

If someone provide a half-furnished house, that is fine by me. If they provide a half-furnished house and also say "hey, it comes with a microwave because I know how to fix a microwave. If you want me to fix a microwave without having to have the whole house, do it yourself, I don't know how to do that", then it raises quite a bunch of red flags about how this person understand how a house works. And in this case, yes, I will call this person an amateur. Not because of the half-furnished house, but because they presented the situation in a way that indicate that they don't really have a grasp on how houses and microwaves work.

Re: Omarchy Is Not A Distro

#148
post #147
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly what you are saying. "Oh there's a half furnished house. Silly amateur house builder, why they don't just sell microwaves?" ?!

What? Not at all what I'm saying. The whole thread started with "a solution to install hyprland", which is "the microwave". My expectation is that someone who knows how to fix a microwave will also know how to distribute it without the whole house. If someone provide a half-furnished house, that is fine by me. If they provide a half-furnished house and also say "hey, it comes with a microwave because I know how to fi…

> If they provide a half-furnished house and also say "hey, it comes with a microwave because I know how to fix a microwave. If you want me to fix a microwave without having to have the whole house, do it yourself, I don't know how to do that",

You're still misattributing the reason I like Omarchy to DHH's reason of making Omarchy.

Re: Omarchy Is Not A Distro

#149
post #147
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly what you are saying. "Oh there's a half furnished house. Silly amateur house builder, why they don't just sell microwaves?" ?!

What? Not at all what I'm saying. The whole thread started with "a solution to install hyprland", which is "the microwave". My expectation is that someone who knows how to fix a microwave will also know how to distribute it without the whole house. If someone provide a half-furnished house, that is fine by me. If they provide a half-furnished house and also say "hey, it comes with a microwave because I know how to fi…

[deleted]

Re: Omarchy Is Not A Distro

#150
post #148
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Not at all what I'm saying. The whole thread started with "a solution to install hyprland", which is "the microwave". My expectation is that someone who knows how to fix a microwave will also know how to distribute it without the whole house. If someone provide a half-furnished house, that is fine by me. If they provide a half-furnished house and also say "hey, it comes with a microwave because I know how to fi…

> If they provide a half-furnished house and also say "hey, it comes with a microwave because I know how to fix a microwave. If you want me to fix a microwave without having to have the whole house, do it yourself, I don't know how to do that", You're still misattributing the reason I like Omarchy to DHH's reason of making Omarchy.

Incorrect.

I did not say "I want to sell half-furnished houses because I want to fix microwaves", I said "Hey, it comes with a microwave ...".

I'm not saying Omarchy is done by people who don't know what they are doing because they created a distribution to fix hyprland. I'm saying Omarchy is done by people who don't know what they are doing because despite having a fix to hyprland, they don't act with it like an adult would.

Again, I know perfectly that "fixing hyprland" was not the objective. But the way they are behaving is just smelling too much of people who cannot be trusted and don't really know how a traditional distribution works and what makes it special.

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