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I keep bouncing off the Scheme language

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Re: I keep bouncing off the Scheme language

#31

Post by funkaster »

I've been forcing myself to stay within the CHICKEN ecosystem for the past 6 months. So far, the whole ecosystem moves really slow, but CHICKEN is such a good design that adding/rolling your own library for whatever you need is so simple. I ended up creating a bunch of eggs (CHICKEN libs) and even rolling my own web framework with its own ORM and background job processing that I rolled out to prod (1000+ users for the past 6 months or so, not a huge demo but it proved that it can scale/be good enough for my projects).

Best of all, is that the syntax grammar is so simple, that a simple CLAUDE.md + a few review agents lets me move super fast using AI. I spend most of my time anchoring on the design/plan and let AI write the implementation for most of the code.

Re: I keep bouncing off the Scheme language

#32

Post by SoftTalker »

iainctduncan wrote: post #12

Strange that the post makes no mention of the Little Schemer series, because teaching you to "think Scheme" is exactly what those books do. Some people are put off by the weird style (combination of children's book visuals and socratic logic problem presentation), but they work!

I struggled with The Little Lisper (as it was called at the time) in school but as I approach the other end of my career I've given some thought to working through it again. I think it would come a lot more easily now. Though I looked at Haskell maybe 10 years ago and never got traction with it.

Functional or declarative programming styles appeal to me, and I love what I've learned of Erlang but never really had a job where I could use it. Used SQL a lot and quite like it as well.

Re: I keep bouncing off the Scheme language

#33

Post by throw310822 »

I've had to go through my Scheme labs when I was studying CS. Even as a hobbyist with a decade of experience in various languages and a decent intuition for coding, I couldn't get my head around it. It's quite telling that a language that is hard to read, unfit for most purposes and that even proficient coders never seem to fully grasp, was chosen as a tool to introduce beginners to coding.

Re: I keep bouncing off the Scheme language

#34

Post by senkora »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #30
senkora wrote: post #14

I think that it helps a lot to have a daily practice of using a language for small things. In much that same way that many people do the daily wordle or crossword, I do the daily leetcode. I flip a coin and solve it first in either C++ or Python, then re-write my solution in the other one. Usually it takes me around 20 minutes to solve it in either language, and 5 minutes to re-solve it in either language. Recently I…

How did you arrive at C++ and Python? Yes I'm aware they have many structural and aesthetic differences, but why would you not choose a language with a different paradigm—functional, logical, even procedural, etc?

Good question. I chose them because they are the languages that I use professionally and would choose for technical interviews. I expect to be asked to solve problems in either language in any given interview.

Technical interviews are different enough from day-to-day work that I still find it valuable to practice in them.

Re: I keep bouncing off the Scheme language

#35

Post by SilentM68 »

I've had a similar problem. I originally started learning programming with BASIC, assembly, procedural, event-driven, languages, found OOP bloated and thus counter productive, time consuming, still do. Have tried to focus on functional languages, but for some reason none stick. Not sure if it is my brain, or haven't found the right language that will work with my head. I'm trying my luck at Odin to see if that can stick with me.

Re: I keep bouncing off the Scheme language

#36

Post by Pay08 »

bitwize wrote: post #21
Pay08 wrote: post #6

I was the same way (and still am somewhat, I can't get hygenic macros into my head) but due to the differences between Scheme and Common Lisp. What helped me was writing imperative code that Scheme people would surely scoff at, and gradually using more and more Scheme features as I kept writing. Then I refactored the whole codebase to look like the final few hundred lines.

Oh, kinda like how I learned Emacs: use it "wrong" for years, treating it as a sort of weird archaic Notepad++, then gradually discover features, master the keybindings, and learn to program Emacs Lisp over time until my proficiency, and the utility the editor provided to me, grew. these days i'm seriously considering switching to zed tho

That sounds like a horrible way of learning Emacs, but fair enough. I don't think you need to know elisp as a prerequisite but personally I learnt enough of it to be able to get by without Customize.

You might want to read Zed's EULA.

Re: I keep bouncing off the Scheme language

#37

Post by retrac »

senkora wrote: post #14

I think that it helps a lot to have a daily practice of using a language for small things. In much that same way that many people do the daily wordle or crossword, I do the daily leetcode. I flip a coin and solve it first in either C++ or Python, then re-write my solution in the other one. Usually it takes me around 20 minutes to solve it in either language, and 5 minutes to re-solve it in either language. Recently I…

> I could a bit biased because I do have prior experience with SML

You're probably under-weighing this factor.

The average programmer looks at SML syntax and cannot make, pardon the expression if you will, heads or tails of it.

Indeed, I'd argue the average programmer still considers recursion an advanced topic.

Re: I keep bouncing off the Scheme language

#38

Post by bitwize »

Pay08 wrote: post #36
bitwize wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, kinda like how I learned Emacs: use it "wrong" for years, treating it as a sort of weird archaic Notepad++, then gradually discover features, master the keybindings, and learn to program Emacs Lisp over time until my proficiency, and the utility the editor provided to me, grew. these days i'm seriously considering switching to zed tho

That sounds like a horrible way of learning Emacs, but fair enough. I don't think you need to know elisp as a prerequisite but personally I learnt enough of it to be able to get by without Customize. You might want to read Zed's EULA.

Well, I'm sorry for not employing a Hackernews-approved data-driven, spaced-repetition learning technique utilizing Pomodoro, Zettelkasten, and balanced gut bacteria to optimize the time to proficiency. I was frickin' 18 when I discovered Emacs (and Linux), it was 1995, and most of us were just figuring this crap out as we went.

I do not use Zed's online services, only the editor itself which is GPLv3. If I need AI I wire in a third-party ACP provider, which is easy enough to configure.

Re: I keep bouncing off the Scheme language

#39

Post by hibbelig »

retrac wrote: post #37
senkora wrote: post #14

I think that it helps a lot to have a daily practice of using a language for small things. In much that same way that many people do the daily wordle or crossword, I do the daily leetcode. I flip a coin and solve it first in either C++ or Python, then re-write my solution in the other one. Usually it takes me around 20 minutes to solve it in either language, and 5 minutes to re-solve it in either language. Recently I…

> I could a bit biased because I do have prior experience with SML You're probably under-weighing this factor. The average programmer looks at SML syntax and cannot make, pardon the expression if you will, heads or tails of it. Indeed, I'd argue the average programmer still considers recursion an advanced topic.

Recursion. Very interesting. My daughter didn’t know much about programming, then started CS. The first semester language was Ocaml and they of course used recursion quite heavily and she’d didn’t know it was supposed to be complicated. The second semester had assembly, C and Java and suddenly it was a problem. I had to remind her that she’s had already done it in the first semester.

Re: I keep bouncing off the Scheme language

#40

Post by sillysaurusx »

senkora wrote: post #14

I think that it helps a lot to have a daily practice of using a language for small things. In much that same way that many people do the daily wordle or crossword, I do the daily leetcode. I flip a coin and solve it first in either C++ or Python, then re-write my solution in the other one. Usually it takes me around 20 minutes to solve it in either language, and 5 minutes to re-solve it in either language. Recently I…

Where do you find a daily leetcode problem? Is there a website somewhere that publishes them?
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