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I was driven mad by the Chinese education system

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Re: I was driven mad by the Chinese education system

#51

Post by Alex3917 »

mattmaroon wrote: post #8
thinkcomp wrote: post #6

It's really depressing to read articles like this, partly because it does seem like there's no way out when you're in the middle of it, and partly because there are significant parts of the American educational system that are really little better. I did not have abusive parents or extended family members, and I did not have to endure the suffering that this author did in a far-away boarding school, but I certainly c…

Test scores are like democracy, they're the least bad option. There's simply not a better way to measure progress, or one more accurate to life.

"Test scores are like democracy, they're the least bad option. There's simply not a better way to measure progress, or one more accurate to life."

There are so many different types of tests that your statement is essentially meaningless.

Re: I was driven mad by the Chinese education system

#52

Post by Ras_ »

In Finland, we have the exact opposite. When tuition is universally free (actually you get paid to study, because government has allotted a student benefit for 55 months in third tier studies for everyone) from 1st grade to doctorate studies, some tend to wander - even for years - doing community work in student unions, or change majors, read another MSc, searching themselves...

Just too many choices and the only opportunity cost is lost time. But it seems to work, at least according to PISA studies.

(we do have entrance exams for universities, and getting private tuition is quite common when people try to get accepted into Med or Law studies - but not for most fields)

Re: I was driven mad by the Chinese education system

#53

Post by glymor »

ekpyrotic wrote: post #43

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the Chinese education system, coupled with discipline through fear works. I competed at last year's International Physics Olympiad (Viet Nam), who won? China, as usual. China starts preparation for the competition when their participants are just 8; they work ~16 hours a day on physics problems. The result? Winning with ease. You have, I all presume, read Gladwell's latest book…

In order to do that they have to stream very early on, far before the Olympiads. I'm not sure what they use to stream but the proxy used in the west, math tests, are more an indicator of how well you can follow instructions.

Undoubtedly China is going to end up with a large number of very technically competent physicists I'm just wondering if they lost a few who could be Nobels along the way.

Re: I was driven mad by the Chinese education system

#54

Post by homme »

ekpyrotic wrote: post #43

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the Chinese education system, coupled with discipline through fear works. I competed at last year's International Physics Olympiad (Viet Nam), who won? China, as usual. China starts preparation for the competition when their participants are just 8; they work ~16 hours a day on physics problems. The result? Winning with ease. You have, I all presume, read Gladwell's latest book…

Sounds like a great method to produce a mechanic but not a creator, i.e. an American Idol winner rather than a Bob Dylan.

Re: I was driven mad by the Chinese education system

#55

Post by ekpyrotic »

wwalker3 wrote: post #50
ekpyrotic wrote: post #43

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the Chinese education system, coupled with discipline through fear works. I competed at last year's International Physics Olympiad (Viet Nam), who won? China, as usual. China starts preparation for the competition when their participants are just 8; they work ~16 hours a day on physics problems. The result? Winning with ease. You have, I all presume, read Gladwell's latest book…

Doing well in the Physics Olympiad is not the same as doing well in physics. In the Physics Olympiad, you solve simple problems based on well-understood formulae. In physics, you create new knowledge. It may be telling that China has won only three physics Nobel prizes, and all three of the winners got their PhDs in the US. I admire your dedication to working hard on physics, but I think that creative, effortful prac…

Thank you wwalker3 for your keen response; however, I going to have to both agree and disagree - cliché through it is.

Doing well in the Physics Olympiad is a prerequisite to doing well in physics. Yes, I agree, creating knowledge requires a creative flare; however, I don't believe such heights can be achieved without first going through "the relentless drill". I'll use to example of literature to better illustrate my point. No doubt Hemingway's precision and restrain in writing was a creative leap; but that was founded on years of drilling; years of practicing alternative styles; years of relentless practice. Only then are creative insights possible.

First comes the drill; then comes the "creative, effortful practice".

Re: I was driven mad by the Chinese education system

#56

Post by ekpyrotic »

homme wrote: post #54
ekpyrotic wrote: post #43

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the Chinese education system, coupled with discipline through fear works. I competed at last year's International Physics Olympiad (Viet Nam), who won? China, as usual. China starts preparation for the competition when their participants are just 8; they work ~16 hours a day on physics problems. The result? Winning with ease. You have, I all presume, read Gladwell's latest book…

Sounds like a great method to produce a mechanic but not a creator, i.e. an American Idol winner rather than a Bob Dylan.

My reply to wwalker3, hopefully, also, answers your concerns.

Re: I was driven mad by the Chinese education system

#57

Post by kragen »

azharcs wrote: post #40

After reading this article, All I can say is Indian education is very much identical. Some kids here are pushed even more than this Chinese kid; a kid sister of my friend goes to private tuition so that she could pass the entrance test of another private tuition which takes in less students and trains them to write and pass the entrance exam of a reputed college in India (so in simple words, she is going through two…

Thank you for your fantastically insightful post!

Re: I was driven mad by the Chinese education system

#58

Post by azharcs »

tigerthink wrote: post #3

I have always believed that to be successful intellectually, you should be driven by curiosity rather than fear.

I really liked your quote, I have just quoted you in my new blog post about the same topic. http://geeyk.com/what-is-wrong-with-chinese-and-indian-paren...

ps: I didn't link here to drive traffic to my blog post, The comment i have written on here is the same i have posted there. :)

Re: I was driven mad by the Chinese education system

#59

Post by nostrademons »

ekpyrotic wrote: post #43

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the Chinese education system, coupled with discipline through fear works. I competed at last year's International Physics Olympiad (Viet Nam), who won? China, as usual. China starts preparation for the competition when their participants are just 8; they work ~16 hours a day on physics problems. The result? Winning with ease. You have, I all presume, read Gladwell's latest book…

It makes sense that if you measure success by the same yardstick that drives education, the more highly educated will win. The Physics Olympiad is testing basically the same skills that a typical high-school physics education in China teaches. Naturally they'd do well at it.

The question is whether those skills are what makes a successful physicist. And I'd guess that they're only a small subset of the skills necessary for original research. Yeah, they're a necessary condition, but they're very far from a sufficient one - and perhaps some of the time spent on drill would be better off directed towards working on those other skills like creativity.

Re: I was driven mad by the Chinese education system

#60

Post by homme »

ekpyrotic wrote: post #56
homme wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a great method to produce a mechanic but not a creator, i.e. an American Idol winner rather than a Bob Dylan.

My reply to wwalker3, hopefully, also, answers your concerns.

Sure, makes some sense. What interesting questions/problems are you looking at these days?
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