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Improving C# Memory Safety

devblogs.microsoft.com

21–30 of 47 posts

Re: Improving C# Memory Safety

#21
post #17
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us use it in scenarios where others would write a blog post about a rewrite in Rust, C++ or whatever. CLR was designed to support languages like C++, yet many don't learn the knobs.

Any lesser known knobs one should know? I'm considering a .NET backend for my compiler

If on Windows, one is to see what C++/CLI would generate, with ildisam or similar tool.

You can also emit MSIL for what you actually want to do, with low-level bytecodes.

Then there is unsafe, ref structs, stack allocation, fixed buffers, scoped types, manual memory management, array pools, memory pipelines, the various span variants.

Re: Improving C# Memory Safety

#22
post #20

Are they finally marking all those functions that use IntPtrs as unsafe? (such as Marshal.Copy)

Not really, because IntPtr is just a native-sized integer.

Marshal.Copy will certainly be marked unsafe, as will anything else that touches unmanaged memory.

Re: Improving C# Memory Safety

#23

They are aligning more closely with the Rust 2024 model for unsafety, which requires inner annotations at the point of unsafety in addition to notation of the function (unless it is the safe-unsafe boundary) plus it imposes a requirement for a SAFETY doc notation for describing the specific invariants the caller must enforce to uphold the safety guarantees. Not terribly onerous in my opinion. I maintain a few native…

> The blurb toward the end about Rent/return makes me a bit nervous though. They say they’re not going full borrow checker, but rent at least sounds an awful lot like borrow to me. Details were basically non-existent though.

Since they state outright that they're not going for a borrow checker, I would assume they're going for "second class references": the borrow checker is both powerful and complicated because references are first-class types: you can pass a reference as parameter, you can return a reference, and you can store a reference.

You can get a lot of the benefits (though also lose a fair amount of expressive power) if you drop the last two and only allow borrows downwards, and that is way easier to track.

Graydon Hoare's original conception of rust used second-class references (https://graydon2.dreamwidth.org/307291.html#:~:text=First-cl...). The Val language uses second-class references. Hylo (formerly Val) uses second-class references under the name of mutable value semantics (https://www.jot.fm/issues/issue_2022_02/article2.pdf).

Although the rent/return case doesn't even seem like a references concern, instead it's affine types which is orthogonal: after you `Return` an array to the pool, you want the array to become inaccessible to the caller (you could make the value linear, but as the text explains missing a `Return` is a safe leak it doesn't look like that's in scope). Rust mutable references are affine but you don't need references to do this...

Re: Improving C# Memory Safety

#25
post #3

What you can do in C# today is convert any unsafe pointer to Span whenever you get your hands on it, and pass around slices. You can still drop down to ‘fixed’ when it turns out you need it for performance.

With fixed you do pinning on GC memory, which can have a negative performance effect. You can also do unchecked pointer arithmetics on references with the Unsafe class, which avoids that. A lot of the methods of Span use that internally.

Re: Improving C# Memory Safety

#26
post #3

What you can do in C# today is convert any unsafe pointer to Span whenever you get your hands on it, and pass around slices. You can still drop down to ‘fixed’ when it turns out you need it for performance.

I could say that the perf difference between spans and unsafe pointers in most cases is just zero, if not in favor of spans at times due to the optimized helper methods or just better code generation. Add the safety benefits to the mix, and it's a no brainer. So, unsafe pointers may not have an edge for performance anymore. They might have other uses cases of course: interop, etc.

Re: Improving C# Memory Safety

#27

> The unsafe keyword is being redesigned OK, I see a lot of C# code often and over a long time. I see the "unsafe" keyword used approximately never. I'm sure that this is useful for some cases. But not everyday things for most of us. If we did use it, it would be carefully isolated in a library for a specific purpose.

Around here C# is only really used at stagnant middle sized companies with horrible code bases. The sort where the company follow Uncle Bob religiously, while completely misunderstanding everything Uncle Bob ever said. Doesn't mean the language (and it's runtime) can't be good.

The examples in Clean Code show that Uncle Bob himself misunderstood heuristics as strict rules that are to be taken to the extreme. There's nothing to not misunderstand.

Re: Improving C# Memory Safety

#28
post #20

Are they finally marking all those functions that use IntPtrs as unsafe? (such as Marshal.Copy)

This change suggests that passing pointers is "generally safe", the unsafe boundaries are when they are de-referenced. It sounds like the Marshal methods are probably going to get a lot of surprising new safety warnings, but not all of them just because of the use of IntPtr. This change does open more opportunities to switch IntPtr to more explicit type-safe options like void* or byte* as the new compiler no longer needs unsafe {} blocks around just passing around pointers from one function to another.

Re: Improving C# Memory Safety

#29

> The unsafe keyword is being redesigned OK, I see a lot of C# code often and over a long time. I see the "unsafe" keyword used approximately never. I'm sure that this is useful for some cases. But not everyday things for most of us. If we did use it, it would be carefully isolated in a library for a specific purpose.

Yes, the article itself even points out that the C# default has always been to make the unsafe keyword a compile error by default and must be opted in at the project level to even use it. So most C# application code doesn't use unsafe.

The benefits here are mostly to specific types of libraries, often either deeply performance-focused libraries or complex native interop libraries (things that wrap C/C++/Rust/etc code as a .NET Library).

The article mostly also points out that like Span many of the biggest benefits to application writers here are going to be making the runtime itself quietly better (faster and safer). The new compile errors will make Base Class Library code and runtime code more auditable for potential memory safety issues by bubbling up safety concerns higher into the code stack and making the boundaries between the unsafe and "safe" code much easier to find. It will provide additional incentive to narrow the number of things that need to be marked `unsafe` and provide extra incentive to the runtime to minimize `unsafe` dependencies. This includes adding additional weight furthering the push for rewrites from "performance" C++ code (under the hood of the runtime) to memory safe C# code with modern safety/performance tools like Span, while also reducing some of the similar pressure to rewrite that C++ code as Rust for memory safety reasons rather than directly to C# (with less overhead of transitioning to/from "managed code" and "native code") by providing similar `unsafe` safety marker tools to what Rust has had since 2024.

(ETA: There may still be some possible breaking changes to today's application code when opting into the new safety checks though by adding possibly more uses of the unsafe keyword than were needed before as many APIs with unsafe in the name or documentation such as the Marshall.* family of functions will probably get new safety documentation. Most of those concerns are still in P/Invoke and native library interop spaces and would probably be refactored into libraries to re-isolate the unsafe code and have the application continue to not allow unsafe blocks, but that will be tech debt migrations that may show up when opting into the new behaviors.)

Re: Improving C# Memory Safety

#30

C# is one of the best languages we evaluated for LLM problem solving. In fact, many strongly typed, lower level languages perform well in our testing (this isn't to say that the solutions are more maintainable, but the LLMs come up with better ideas when writing C# or Rust than Python). Google models especially, for whatever reason, outperform in C#, not Golang. Data at https://gertlabs.com/rankings?provider=google

This is why C# is superior to C++ for game development (not the graphics low level, but the game play higher level).

Being able to use Events, ECS, Reflection, Dynamic code is a god send. I have written game engines in C# and I still find myself defaulting to it anytime I think about Vulkan. I even published my own bindings for it. The best thing about .Net unfortunately is also one of its worst.

The deployment and packaging situation. It’s better than it’s been but it’s still a freaking mess. A mix of undocumented cli commands and wacky xml so that I can get an amalgamated build… or if I wanted to target another OS… or something of that nature. Even adding a project reference to a project, you have to go the long way round and use the cli commands. It’s better than having to install Visual Studio Ultimate but I wish they would put some love into their VSCode extension to give .Net some more powah.

Other than that, if you need Cish speed but need to support a GUI or something, C# is a good choice. If you’re happy with HTML UI, use that and forget C#. The UI cross platform situation is basically MIA.

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