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BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

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Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#81
post #15

I can't help but wonder how could, Bambulabs or the Chinese government, actually mine that data? In my mind, 3D models fail into two categories: artistic and utilitarian, though there's a continuum between those two. With the artistic side, the Chinese government could find itself in possession of tons and tons of Western miniatures. With the utilitarian side, they will find themselves in possession of lots and lots…

> Of course, there's no telling if the next step of boiling the frog is to require users to attach metadata to their models before the printer prints them...

Custom firmware is always a thing for these printers.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#82

Can I just say: thank you for posting an xcancel link and not linking to X directly! I forgot Xcancel was a thing, I might actually start using it occasionally now.

What are the benefits of using xcancel?

In addition to the other benefits, it's very lightweight. There is an anti-SPAM redirect but no huge JS bundles, just basic HTML.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#83
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything that a Chinese company does is for nefarious reason or under the hidden agenda of the Chinese government. The reality is much more mundane: many Chinese companies do not understand the expectations around open source. There isn’t anything really equivalent in China. The closest mindset is that things that are available to use, are available to take. The notion of copyright -while not inexistent- is not…

There are cultural differences in attitudes toward individual ownership of IP under communism. It is a recent change for China firms to bother getting international patents and trademarks. Naomi Wu made herself notable in media, and in China "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down". Unfortunate, as she seemed like a real entrepreneurial leader with skill. =3

And who was it that put her in that situation? An American Journalist that didn't respect boundaries even after it was made clear to them that this would cause issues for her in China.

> Vice published a profile on Wu that included personal details regarding her sexual orientation, which she had explicitly asked them to keep off the record out of fear of state censorship and government retaliation in China.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#84

I don't like all this shaming on social media. It feels performative and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If they're in violation of your copyright agreements, sue them. If you can't sue them because it's unenforceable, well, that sucks, but too bad. I don't know what they expect to happen here. Is there even a clear call to action? Boycott? Do something .

Oh please, they deserve shaming. This is a great use of social media. Put the facts out there as you see them. No need to sue or have a call to action.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#85
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything that a Chinese company does is for nefarious reason or under the hidden agenda of the Chinese government. The reality is much more mundane: many Chinese companies do not understand the expectations around open source. There isn’t anything really equivalent in China. The closest mindset is that things that are available to use, are available to take. The notion of copyright -while not inexistent- is not…

> They are not idiots, but not everyone at that company will actually understand the duties that come with these licenses. Copyright is not some kind of spiritual nonsense. It's law. You don't need to understand how, you just need to follow it. There can be legal questions on what exactly you can do, but those can arise for any kind of law. Of course you could also ignore copyright law - but that's the same with any…

Companies are not moral. They will only follows laws when they are enforceable either thru the law, or thru social blowback. That’s not a chinese vs western thing, western companies are just as happy to ignore the law when they can - it’s just western IP frameworks are historically better enforced (socially and legally) in the west.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#86
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are underestimating how many companies use 3D printing for prototyping. It's not just hobbyists printing miniatures. To give an example, I had RSI and use a high-end, expensive ergonomic keyboard. The company that makes these keyboards does not go immediately from design idea to an expensive mold. There are many design iterations and prototypes and they are all 3D prints. The same is probably true for air…

I think you're overestimate the value of these prototypes. The print itself is either a plastic render of the final product without any value, or it's a shell without any actual useful parts/machinery. If we imagine we're talking about the 1% of 1% of 1% which could end up as useful IP stuff, but which might be very hard/impossible to find/understand/do anything with it, for which cases don't use bambu.

Not to mention, 3D scanners exist. It's well within Chinese capabilities to simply scan parts and recreate them in CAD.

The only case where they might not be able to do that is if they literally can't buy the part (e.g. the military). But the military does not use Bambu printers.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#87
post #24
post #15

I can't help but wonder how could, Bambulabs or the Chinese government, actually mine that data? In my mind, 3D models fail into two categories: artistic and utilitarian, though there's a continuum between those two. With the artistic side, the Chinese government could find itself in possession of tons and tons of Western miniatures. With the utilitarian side, they will find themselves in possession of lots and lots…

Not everything that a Chinese company does is for nefarious reason or under the hidden agenda of the Chinese government. The reality is much more mundane: many Chinese companies do not understand the expectations around open source. There isn’t anything really equivalent in China. The closest mindset is that things that are available to use, are available to take. The notion of copyright -while not inexistent- is not…

It's just good business. They know intellectual property is only meaningfully enforced outside China against entities outside China, why wouldn't they use that competitive advantage? I don't buy they are clueless about that, BambuLabs is built for global distribution, they know what they're doing. They may play dumb about the issue (because that's good PR practice), but they'll have decided they can ignore that license and they'll be right in the long run.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#88

I don't like all this shaming on social media. It feels performative and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If they're in violation of your copyright agreements, sue them. If you can't sue them because it's unenforceable, well, that sucks, but too bad. I don't know what they expect to happen here. Is there even a clear call to action? Boycott? Do something .

> Back then we considered legal action. We seriously did. But the practical reality: PrusaSlicer is software, not hardware. There's no boxed product crossing customs to stop - only real possibility which would make them comply. And jurisdiction for the licensee lands in China, which means the case lands in a Chinese court applying Chinese law to a Chinese company. If there is no legal recourse, but you believe in the…

I understand, appreciate and respect copyleft but I'm no zealot.

Fundamentally this rubs me the same wrong way as others attempting to enforce social contracts do. It feels wrong to assume that western ethics should be universal and apply to a foreign entity such as a business in China. Perhaps they simply view this as a viable approach? And, surprise, it is, at least for them. Do I wish that weren't the case? Sure, that'd be grand. But I don't see how this post gets us any closer to that fantasy.

Put yourself in their shoes. Someone released some software under a license designed around a foreign legal framework that doesn't apply to you. You can make products using that software that people want and make money. Is it your fault you are immune from the license? Is it your government's? Is it wrong to do so? I don't think it's clear enough.

And yeah the call to action should be clear. It's not. I don't see why they can't pursue legal action and go for damages or at the very least prevent the sale of their printers in local jurisdictions. Perhaps that would still be performative but it at least creates precedence that others can use to strengthen their own cases, or allow governments to push for action. But it appears like they're doing nothing.

If the US or the EU are going to do nothing about Chinese companies pedaling wares derived from US/EU IP made possible only by dodging licensing requirements then perhaps it's simply not a viable approach to rely on copyleft to protect you. Or you can try and change that.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#89
post #33

I use my printer to make prototypes for my business. There is no way in hell I'm sending them into the internet for some random to examine. I think my next printer will be mostly 3D printed, with a few generic parts like motor controllers, the odd bit of metal tubing, off the shelf bed levelling system, open source software etc. I only need single colour prints for work, and AFAIK the fastest printer on the planet is…

a voron thats whats you want. massive community, build kits out there, fully open source

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#90

Can I just say: thank you for posting an xcancel link and not linking to X directly! I forgot Xcancel was a thing, I might actually start using it occasionally now.

I noticed that xcancel links are rewritten to x.com more often than not, probably due to the fact that xcancel will not last like xitter, nitter and all the ones before it.

I hope that archive services implement preserving twitter content.

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