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Blood Pumping Mechanism of the Hoof (2020)

horses.extension.org

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Re: Blood Pumping Mechanism of the Hoof (2020)

#11

I've been pondering for a while a question that is exceedingly unlikely to ever be answered within my lifetime, because as a prerequisite it assumes a framework strong enough to answer several very hard questions in philosophy, neuroscience, and information theory. And that question is: Is it possible even in principle for a conscious entity to have an instinctual understanding and awareness of every low-level detail…

Many of the systems that complex biological systems rely on, evolved long before the brain, some of them go back to before there were nervous systems at all. Truth is that it's all a hodge-podge of layers of complexity built on-top and sideways. In tech terms we would call it enormous technical debt.

We're all vibe coded :(

Re: Blood Pumping Mechanism of the Hoof (2020)

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the systems that complex biological systems rely on, evolved long before the brain, some of them go back to before there were nervous systems at all. Truth is that it's all a hodge-podge of layers of complexity built on-top and sideways. In tech terms we would call it enormous technical debt.

We're all vibe coded :(

The test suite did the heavy lifting.

Re: Blood Pumping Mechanism of the Hoof (2020)

#13

I've been pondering for a while a question that is exceedingly unlikely to ever be answered within my lifetime, because as a prerequisite it assumes a framework strong enough to answer several very hard questions in philosophy, neuroscience, and information theory. And that question is: Is it possible even in principle for a conscious entity to have an instinctual understanding and awareness of every low-level detail…

Humans are kept alive by quadrillions of closed control loops. Being aware of them all would be very distracting.

Re: Blood Pumping Mechanism of the Hoof (2020)

#14

I've been pondering for a while a question that is exceedingly unlikely to ever be answered within my lifetime, because as a prerequisite it assumes a framework strong enough to answer several very hard questions in philosophy, neuroscience, and information theory. And that question is: Is it possible even in principle for a conscious entity to have an instinctual understanding and awareness of every low-level detail…

[deleted]

Re: Blood Pumping Mechanism of the Hoof (2020)

#15

I've been pondering for a while a question that is exceedingly unlikely to ever be answered within my lifetime, because as a prerequisite it assumes a framework strong enough to answer several very hard questions in philosophy, neuroscience, and information theory. And that question is: Is it possible even in principle for a conscious entity to have an instinctual understanding and awareness of every low-level detail…

I’ve thought about this. Or at least something like that.

When reading dune there’s a class of women who can control their biochemistry in such a way that they can eg prolong lifespan, or anything else within the realm of feasible biochemistry.

Here I was like: how does the nervous system function in that way? How could signals from the mind control the behavior of molecules?

The mind cannot itself feel pain, similarly the mind has sensory limits within the body. As argued in a book called the body a guide for occupants: cancer is a very good example of a disease that our nervous system should be able to detect but for whatever reason we don’t, probably because cancer is something we can only now treat.

Not all of the body can be made legible to the mind.

Although maybe a better question: why don’t we have a dedicated organ that can sample blood with laboratory like precision and make anomalies available to the conscious mind beyond whatever faculties we currently have?

PS

One thing that definitely should be within the realm of conscious control: body fat. There are ways of forcing the body to metabolize more fat for energy and the biggest problem is managing excess heart (easily becomes lethal). But this could be super useful in cold climates. Imagine being able to literally burn body fat to stay warm? The amount of heat that can be released is enormous. Nowadays most of us could probably afford the otherwise superfluous expenditure of body fat (beyond essential functions).

Re: Blood Pumping Mechanism of the Hoof (2020)

#16

I've been pondering for a while a question that is exceedingly unlikely to ever be answered within my lifetime, because as a prerequisite it assumes a framework strong enough to answer several very hard questions in philosophy, neuroscience, and information theory. And that question is: Is it possible even in principle for a conscious entity to have an instinctual understanding and awareness of every low-level detail…

> "A horse is an extremely sophisticated biological machine, but it has no idea what makes itself tick."

To my ears, a lot of detail is hidden in "knowing what makes itself tick". The limit of human Umwelt, cognitive closure, is an arena I find fascinating.

Modern people tend to identify understanding with mechanistic explanations. Veins, glycogen, immune states, hoof pumps. These are interesting and satisfying to us. But does that kind of explanation satisfy only because we are apes with ape language and interests, leaving aside even that we live in a society that values those explanations?

If a horse-level intelligence existed, perhaps its most satisfying explanations would not be "I can inspect the venous plexus in my hoof," but something else. Maybe more proprioceptive: pressure, load, gait. Or maybe that's just still my primate prejudice poking through.

What would satisfy a horse scientists might seem opaque or insufficient to us, but maybe our biochemical account would seem equally beside the point to it?

Maybe there is no species-neutral answer to what counts as understanding what one is.

On a deeper level, I suspect that a "complete understanding" in an absolute or divine sense is infinite. Our perceptions are necessarily limited, only a model of reality. In order to understand in a way that helps us survive, we must filter out a lot of information that is not absolutely irrelevant, but is irrelevant to us. Even Funes remembered only that which is relevant to a human, that which he could perceive in the first place. He could not remember changes in magnetic fields, background radiation, subtle shifts in gravity.

Re: Blood Pumping Mechanism of the Hoof (2020)

#17

I've been pondering for a while a question that is exceedingly unlikely to ever be answered within my lifetime, because as a prerequisite it assumes a framework strong enough to answer several very hard questions in philosophy, neuroscience, and information theory. And that question is: Is it possible even in principle for a conscious entity to have an instinctual understanding and awareness of every low-level detail…

If you try to understand by knowing every little detail it is bound to fail because that attempt only increases the number of things you need to understand.

I think the Buddhist had it right in this instance, if you want to understand yourself completely stop trying to know every little thing and just be aware.

Re: Blood Pumping Mechanism of the Hoof (2020)

#18
post #15

I've been pondering for a while a question that is exceedingly unlikely to ever be answered within my lifetime, because as a prerequisite it assumes a framework strong enough to answer several very hard questions in philosophy, neuroscience, and information theory. And that question is: Is it possible even in principle for a conscious entity to have an instinctual understanding and awareness of every low-level detail…

I’ve thought about this. Or at least something like that. When reading dune there’s a class of women who can control their biochemistry in such a way that they can eg prolong lifespan, or anything else within the realm of feasible biochemistry. Here I was like: how does the nervous system function in that way? How could signals from the mind control the behavior of molecules? The mind cannot itself feel pain, similar…

> why don’t we have a dedicated organ that can sample blood with laboratory like precision and make anomalies available to the conscious mind beyond whatever faculties we currently have?

"My triglycerides are at 220 mg/dL" is not a useful signal to a hominid banging rocks together.

Instead, what we got was the budget version, keyed for resolution rather than understanding: thirst (osmolality of plasma fluid), suffocation (blood acidity induced by excess CO2), and when all else fails, at least vague malaise as a catch-all "something's off, let's maybe sit down."

> One thing that definitely should be within the realm of conscious control: body fat. There are ways of forcing the body to metabolize fat for energy and the biggest problem is managing excess heart (easily becomes lethal). But this could be super useful in cold climates.

Non-shivering thermogenesis is primarily mediated by brown fat. It's how babies keep warm. Adults still retain some brown fat, and it appears spending time in the cold can stimulate its production. https://stagetestdomain3.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-ma...

> Imagine being able to literally burn body fat for heat? Nowadays most of us could probably afford the otherwise superfluous expenditure of body fat.

Brown fat is burned in the body by a protein called thermogenin (UCP1). The same process can be stimulated by the drug 2,4-Dinitrophenol (DNP), albeit to lethal consequences if you're not careful. I suppose the reason we can't do this at will is because our body can do it unconsciously for us better and more safely than our frontal cortex ever could.

Re: Blood Pumping Mechanism of the Hoof (2020)

#19

I've been pondering for a while a question that is exceedingly unlikely to ever be answered within my lifetime, because as a prerequisite it assumes a framework strong enough to answer several very hard questions in philosophy, neuroscience, and information theory. And that question is: Is it possible even in principle for a conscious entity to have an instinctual understanding and awareness of every low-level detail…

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