Live data from Hacker News

Shipping a laptop to a refugee camp in Uganda

notesbylex.com

51–60 of 291 posts

Re: Shipping a laptop to a refugee camp in Uganda

#51
post #38
post #9

Two main takeaways: 1. Never underestimate developing countries' governments' willingness to absolutely bend their people over to extract tax revenue (and then their corrupt representatives extract bribes on top of it) 2. Django's gratitude and positivity in the face of all of it is an inspiration. I suspect I and most everyone I know would be in tears and would have given up in exasperation halfway through his quest…

[flagged]

What's the solution?

Re: Shipping a laptop to a refugee camp in Uganda

#52
post #48
post #9

Two main takeaways: 1. Never underestimate developing countries' governments' willingness to absolutely bend their people over to extract tax revenue (and then their corrupt representatives extract bribes on top of it) 2. Django's gratitude and positivity in the face of all of it is an inspiration. I suspect I and most everyone I know would be in tears and would have given up in exasperation halfway through his quest…

This is unfortunately also one of the biggest problems with donating to NGOs that operate in many foreign countries. Much of the aid money gets stolen by corrupt officials and local criminals. Donors have to check carefully that NGOs are legitimately benefiting the intended recipients.

If the implication is true…

Shouldn’t people stop helping further entrench these shady practices?

If Ugandan decision makers know the people will effectively always be underwritten to receive some bread and water… no matter what happens…

Then what exactly is stopping them from piling on more and more nonsense?

Re: Shipping a laptop to a refugee camp in Uganda

#53

I wish governments would realize that the more barriers and friction they put between their citizens and good tools, the worse their economy will probably be.

The average citizen does not have the income to even afford stuff like that. Anyone who is able buy a laptop like that is wealthy by local standards. And in particular anyone importing stuff from outside. And that wealth is being taxed. If they didn't do that then there wouldn't be may people left to tax at all.

Sure, Django here is the exception, but not taxing imports would generally not benefit people like him, but the actually wealthy people who can otherwise afford the tax.

Re: Shipping a laptop to a refugee camp in Uganda

#54
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unfortunately also one of the biggest problems with donating to NGOs that operate in many foreign countries. Much of the aid money gets stolen by corrupt officials and local criminals. Donors have to check carefully that NGOs are legitimately benefiting the intended recipients.

If the implication is true… Shouldn’t people stop helping further entrench these shady practices? If Ugandan decision makers know the people will effectively always be underwritten to receive some bread and water… no matter what happens… Then what exactly is stopping them from piling on more and more nonsense?

[deleted]

Re: Shipping a laptop to a refugee camp in Uganda

#55
post #48
post #9

Two main takeaways: 1. Never underestimate developing countries' governments' willingness to absolutely bend their people over to extract tax revenue (and then their corrupt representatives extract bribes on top of it) 2. Django's gratitude and positivity in the face of all of it is an inspiration. I suspect I and most everyone I know would be in tears and would have given up in exasperation halfway through his quest…

This is unfortunately also one of the biggest problems with donating to NGOs that operate in many foreign countries. Much of the aid money gets stolen by corrupt officials and local criminals. Donors have to check carefully that NGOs are legitimately benefiting the intended recipients.

Which is why, naturally, the American Red Cross is the gold standard for NGO donation efficiency.

Re: Shipping a laptop to a refugee camp in Uganda

#56
post #51
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What's the solution?

Arguably, just to leave them alone, neither exploiting nor trying to "help". It sucks and it hurts, but outside interference does not seem to help a society heal itself. This has been argued by more informed people than myself-- https://www.uvm.edu/~jashman/CDAE195_ESCI375/To%20Hell%20wit...

Re: Shipping a laptop to a refugee camp in Uganda

#57
It's pretty much like trying to get something shipped to Argentina, a royal pain in the ass.

The laptop would pay a 50% fee over the (declared value + shipping cost). Couriers will mostly deal with that on send, but if sent through regular mail you need to declare and pay before you get it.

If you didn't include your tax number as part of the address (doesn't matter in which field), there's a non-zero chance that the package will be lost, held indefinitely or returned to sender.

It's great that there are people willing to help even in these conditions.

Re: Shipping a laptop to a refugee camp in Uganda

#58
post #39

This is a very western approach to a very Ugandan problem. A trivial amount of money (for a Westerner) could have saved a lot of time and pain.

Can you please expand what you mean? It's not clear how money would have solved this problem better.

Specifically I was talking about this part

> "At some point, one man quietly pulled me aside and suggested that if I "gave something," they could help solve the problem more easily.".

You can pay that fee/bribe and things will go smoothly.

But more generally my thought was that the western idea is that bureaucracy rules are something to be followed and, even if painful, are the path to getting the state to provide the services. In Uganda, it's better to model bureaucracy as a system that exists to enable bribes and following the rules to the letter and expecting state services is fighting the system.

If you want to get goods to someone in Uganda, don't talk to the Australian Post about the rules, talk to a Ugandan importer who knows how to actually work the system that exists in practice.

Caveats about broad brushes of course, but that's the realistic approach IMO.

Re: Shipping a laptop to a refugee camp in Uganda

#59

I wish governments would realize that the more barriers and friction they put between their citizens and good tools, the worse their economy will probably be.

but how would that benefit those in government?

More to steal?

Re: Shipping a laptop to a refugee camp in Uganda

#60
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please expand what you mean? It's not clear how money would have solved this problem better.

Specifically I was talking about this part > "At some point, one man quietly pulled me aside and suggested that if I "gave something," they could help solve the problem more easily.". You can pay that fee/bribe and things will go smoothly. But more generally my thought was that the western idea is that bureaucracy rules are something to be followed and, even if painful, are the path to getting the state to provide th…

It was the local, not the Westerner, who refused to pay, right?
Post reply on HN