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Why Japanese companies do so many different things

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Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#111

Post by redwall_hp »

ryukoposting wrote: post #45
jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

I'll preface this by saying there are lots of other factors at play, but here's an interesting one I can speak to personally: Car culture. We're a very car-centric society, and the Japanese auto makers have been a part everyday life to 3 full generations of Americans now. Even most Baby Boomers are too young to remember a world without Honda or Toyota. Across all age groups, a lot more Americans grew up with a fondne…

Yep. Growing up in the 90s, Japan was the undisputed king of cool, affordable entry level sports cars. RX-7, Integra, Impreza WRX, et al.

Yamaha, Korg an Roland were the defining instrument producers of the 80s and 90s. Few things have altered the course of popular music as much as the TR-909 and TR-808, M1, DX-7, Juno, Jupiter. All of electronic music grew out of those.

The Walkman and Discman were iconic.

Honda was building P3 and ASIMO. The PlayStation 1/2 and Nintendo 64/GameCube were a thing.

I didn't even get into anime, the language or music from there until decades later. But all of the cool things came from Japan back then. Honestly, they still kind of do.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#112

Post by missedthecue »

monkaiju wrote: post #26
cm2012 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do also think there's a charm to this model but there's a real cost also with Japan's economy stagnating compared to the United States in the last 30 years.

Perhaps, but in terms of the average Japanese persons day to day experience it doesn't seem so bad. They outrank us in almost all QoL measures

Japan is getting poorer. People online love to talk about American stagnant wages, but Americans are considerably richer than they were 20 years ago. The median American earns 20% more in real terms, and even the bottom quintile of earners in America has increased their inflation adjusted earnings by 15%. In the same time period, the median Japanese inflation adjusted earnings is down 2.8%.

Compared to 20 years ago, Japanese people travel much less (millions fewer can afford to go overseas). Residential energy is 35% more expensive per kwh, compared to only 5% in the US. Food as a portion of monthly Japanese spend is 48% more expensive than it was 20 years ago. Despite millions of vacant dwellings, the home ownership rate is slipping. They earn less and they spend less.

Tokyo may seem quaint to American visitors clanking down their metal Chase travel credit card for more sushi, but for the typical Japanese, although they take it with grace and in stride, they have mired in stagnation and degrowth for a generation.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#113

Post by user____name »

qurren wrote: post #81
jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

> how Westerners idealize Japan Westerners are taught by the media and education to idealize Japan and hate China almost everywhere. They present cherry-picked aspects of both countries that make China look bad and Japan look good. In reality every country has its good and bad aspects. This is just part of the propaganda machine and what politicians want you to believe, in an effort to align their populations to be s…

Is it propaganda though? Japan is more aligned with ‘the west’ not only in geopolitics but in the system of governance that was imposed upon it by via USA occuptation. Whereas China has a very different political system that is generally poorly understood and distrusted. Regardless, I don’t know where you’re from, but I see plenty of idolizing of China and how it manages to solve big problems at speeds unseen outside of mobilization in other parts of the globe. China-studies are a big thing at the moment. The positive view of Japan probably flows from its postwar boom years and popculture exports. China is at the moment being viewed with suspicion over its military buildup near Taiwan and creeping authoritarianism under Xi. This could all change again in the future depending on the actions China will take.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#114

Post by tomwheeler »

tristor wrote: post #91
QuercusMax wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that in Japan they sell Acura as Honda, and Lexus as Toyota?

Lexus didn't enter the Japanese market as a brand until 2005, prior to that all Lexus models well sold under the Toyota moniker in the Japanese market. I'm not sure about Acura, but the GP's assertion is largely correct in its directionality.

I can confirm this is true for Acura. I owned an Acura Legend and the same car was sold in Japan (well, the right-hand drive version) as the Honda Legend. I had seen pictures of them online in the 90s, but happened to see a Honda Legend in person when I was in Tokyo some years later.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#115

Post by missedthecue »

elzbardico wrote: post #69
cm2012 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do also think there's a charm to this model but there's a real cost also with Japan's economy stagnating compared to the United States in the last 30 years.

Most of Japan stagnation was the result of brutal pressure from the US in the 1980s that led to a series of fiscal and monetary choices that removed a lot of Japan's competitivity.

The median age of Japan went from 37 in 1990 to 50 in 2026. That's an insurmountable headwind. Soon, half the country will be elderly. That's no way to run a vibrant dynamic economy.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#116

Post by user____name »

blowscum wrote: post #102
wk_end wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't really think there's much political or propaganda interest in getting Westerners to idealize Japan, at this point. Now back in the 80s? Back in the 80s, despite being aligned with the West, they were perceived a lot like China is today. Everyone was scared that they were going to start eating the West's lunch and various negative stereotypes and exaggerations started to bubble up: it was a futuristic l…

> it was a futuristic land, but a futuristic land of suicides, with little drone-like salarymen crammed into little shoebox apartments the size of a Western bathroom, working 20 hour days. So basically just what the west is becoming?

The US under trillionare leadership, certainly.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#117

Post by redwall_hp »

QuercusMax wrote: post #66
SilasX wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is that this system is heavily driven by Japan's unique, subtle classism. It's a highly collectivist society with strict age-based milestones and immense pressure to secure traditional employment. In Japan, your corporate affiliation often dictates your social standing. Relate…

Are you saying that in Japan they sell Acura as Honda, and Lexus as Toyota?

That is accurate. Acura and Lexus were brands created for the US market. The original Integra was badged as Honda in Japan and Acura in the US, for example. A TLX or whatever is just a top trim Accord.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#118

Post by trentnix »

wk_end wrote: post #99
qurren wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how Westerners idealize Japan Westerners are taught by the media and education to idealize Japan and hate China almost everywhere. They present cherry-picked aspects of both countries that make China look bad and Japan look good. In reality every country has its good and bad aspects. This is just part of the propaganda machine and what politicians want you to believe, in an effort to align their populations to be s…

I really don't really think there's much political or propaganda interest in getting Westerners to idealize Japan, at this point. Now back in the 80s? Back in the 80s, despite being aligned with the West, they were perceived a lot like China is today. Everyone was scared that they were going to start eating the West's lunch and various negative stereotypes and exaggerations started to bubble up: it was a futuristic l…

> Now back in the 80s? Back in the 80s, despite being aligned with the West, they were perceived a lot like China is today. Everyone was scared that they were going to start eating the West's lunch and various negative stereotypes and exaggerations started to bubble up: it was a futuristic land, but a futuristic land of suicides, with little drone-like salarymen crammed into little shoebox apartments the size of a Western bathroom, working 20 hour days.

Yep. A lot of cyberpunk fiction from that time that demonized corporate influence and power was inspired by the rise and perceptions of Japanese technology companies.

I can remember one of the American news magazine shows, maybe 20/20, showing a Japanese school with long hours and intense discipline and contrasting it with fat, illiterate American kids (the same stereotypes were made about the Soviet Union).

A lot of the perception of Japan, especially among Gen X and younger, is influenced from exports of Japanese culture. Nintendo, JRPGs, Manga, Anime, and even the quirky stuff reflects well on the Japanese though American eyes. No propaganda is needed.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#119

Post by p_j_w »

Aunche wrote: post #92
marcosdumay wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Marx theories do not hold up to reality, and most people can plainly see it. How is it working for the US to have every company mostly owned by the general public's retirement funds?

> Because Marx theories do not hold up to reality Sure, but ownership being the root of inequality was the one thing that he was actually correct about. CEO to worker pay ratio is something that is completely irrelevant. Companies spend orders of magnitude more money on its shareholders (dividends, buybacks, and reinvestment) than executive compensation.

Maybe others see it differently than I do, but the actual spending isn't so much the issue. It's the fact that these people with so much money exist at all. That much money translates to a tremendous amount of power which allows them to bend the law to their will.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#120

Post by jdw64 »

jmyeet wrote: post #107
jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

I've thought a lot about (and I don't mean this in a derogatory way) the weebu phenomenon. I remember encountering it first in college when I met people who were in an anime club. It wasn't for me but my philosophy generally is "let people enjoy things". I will say that it often goes beyond "idealizing". I'd use the word "fetishizing". I've wondered how much of this stems from being disaffected by the modern (particu…

Are you angling for an 'Honorary Korean' title? You know too much about Korea
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