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Why Japanese companies do so many different things

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Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#51

Post by jdw64 »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #21
jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

Did you read the entire article? There is a whole section on where western model excels. The article is not about romanticizing Japanese culture, but to tell a story about how and why Japanese and American firms tend to differ. I am sure that it paints in overly broad strokes at times, but I really did not get the impression of idolization, idealism, or even oriental mysticism.

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Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#52

Post by jdw64 »

mbesto wrote: post #48
jdw64 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did read it, but my impression remains the same. While the article does contain critiques of the Japanese system, as an East Asian, I feel it completely misses the actual underlying dynamics. I know the author isn't trying to paint Japan as a utopia. The reason I call it 'romanticized' is because the author claims Japan's success in precision parts is driven by 'horizontal' and 'collaborative' practices. That just…

> is because the author claims Japan's success in precision parts is driven by 'horizontal' and 'collaborative' practices. That just isn't true. > In reality, this system is largely sustained by the ruthless squeezing of subcontractors (for the record, I am Korean, but I actually like Japan), which is a massive social issue there. Well that's just like your opinion...man. I think you're both singularly wrong. Trying…

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Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#53

Post by sashank_1509 »

monkaiju wrote: post #26
cm2012 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do also think there's a charm to this model but there's a real cost also with Japan's economy stagnating compared to the United States in the last 30 years.

Perhaps, but in terms of the average Japanese persons day to day experience it doesn't seem so bad. They outrank us in almost all QoL measures

Frankly I think any QoL measure between a western and a Japanese life are meaningless.

If you’ve ever worked for a Japanese corp under a Japanese boss, you would basically experience that your life is hell. As a westerner we are even subjected to far lesser rules and customs than a Japanese, and yet to me it still felt far more stifling and unbearable than any western company I worked for. Western companies have different failure modes, but intense unspoken micromanagement and stupid expectations was never one of them.

And I was a supposed “subject matter expert”, to be treated better than rank and file. That said, this clearly works for Japanese people, many of them are happy, I think they would be miserable under a western firms “do whatever the f you want as long as you get results” culture. To each their own.

Japan in some sense is stagnating if you compare it to a GOAT like US, but Japan of 1910s was also probably stagnating compared to US, in its own terms Japan is doing fine and their political situation is much more civil. So GG to them

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#54

Post by alephnerd »

jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

> It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN

Most HNers tend to be in their mid-30s to 50s so a lot of Japan-philia does appear to stem from an older mental image from the 1990s to 2010s.

> This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is that this system is heavily driven by Japan's unique, subtle classism. It's a highly collectivist society with strict age-based milestones and immense pressure to secure traditional employment. In Japan, your corporate affiliation often dictates your social standing...

The Japanese Keiretsu and later Trust Bank model is the norm in South Korea, Taiwan, China, and other Asian countries as well due to a mix of colonial, financial, and policymaking ties.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#55

Post by busterarm »

jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

[flagged]

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#56

Post by bobthepanda »

BJones12 wrote: post #22
jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

> how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? HN has had posts romanticizing them, maybe check those https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32622140 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41438060 > it created a massive 'zombie company' problem—a heavily discussed issue in Korea and Japan that the West seems largely blind to Zombie companies in the west are mentioned as a…

Zombie companies exist in Europe; at least part of the euro crisis was exacerbated by the continuing cascade of bankruptcies making other banks insolvent.

The EU’s crisis schemes like furloughing employees en masse dull the pain but also do prolong some companies’ lives. The US historically has had much more brutal impacts but quicker recoveries.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#57

Post by bobthepanda »

busterarm wrote: post #55
jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

[flagged]

I think more so the issue with the union rhetoric is that it’s all or nothing. Yes there are bad unions. But also, collective bargaining can form a safety net, and there isn’t much of an alternative when things go south in an industry.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#58

Post by PaulHoule »

toast0 wrote: post #12

> American firms, for example, tend to prioritize focus above all else: it would be bizarre for an American paper mill to also operate a concert hall and an airport catering business I don't think Kimberly-Clark ever opetated a concert hall, but they did run an airline (Midwest Express) and K-C Aviation was an airplane servicing firm. It's not that American companies don't operate in diverse businesses. Maybe they're…

There have been conglomerate fads from time to time in American business. Interestingly ITT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITT_Inc.

used to have a big position in hotels and just about everything else and it trained quality movement advocate Phil Crosby

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_B._Crosby

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#59

Post by busterarm »

bobthepanda wrote: post #57
busterarm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think more so the issue with the union rhetoric is that it’s all or nothing. Yes there are bad unions. But also, collective bargaining can form a safety net, and there isn’t much of an alternative when things go south in an industry.

I agree.

But I'm drawing the parallel between situations where people like a certain work culture that they have never experienced because it conforms to their larger worldview.

It's mostly projection and doesn't meet with reality.

There's a lot that I like about aspects of Japanese work culture but I'm sure that I would find it stifling.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#60

Post by deaux »

jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

> It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain?

I'd be pleasantly surprised, very impressed and it would make me reach out to have an offline chat. Not exaggerating.

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