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How to convert between wealth and income tax

paulgraham.com

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Re: How to convert between wealth and income tax

#41

[flagged]

This just isn't true, unless you're the president. Who is the single largest taxpayer in US history? I'll wait while you google it.

Musk paid $11B in a year his wealth went up $86B on his way to likely being the first trillionaire. Are we supposed to cry about it?

The median net worth in the US is ~$200k. A lot of middle-class folks have likely paid more taxes in their lifetime than their entire net worth.

Re: How to convert between wealth and income tax

#43
Lots of confusion and misunderstanding in these comments. Not surprising, given the highly charged nature of the subject. I highly recommend Ray Madoff's book The Second Estate [1] to learn more about the topic.

[1] https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo256019...

Re: How to convert between wealth and income tax

#44
post #27

I think 1% wealth tax should be a replacement for income tax. That way only the wealthy will pay taxes.

How do you propose we measure a person's wealth, when wealth is easily hidden? When it needs to be done now, it is usually a years long audit.

The first step we need to take is to invest in the IRS. Every dollar invested in the IRS returns between $5-9. Couple that with fines that offset the cost of auditing, and "hidden wealth" becomes a liability too expensive for people to bother with.

Re: How to convert between wealth and income tax

#45
Because billionaires accumulate wealth through assets and unrealized gains, many of them skip taking a traditional income and pay. If the numbers in the links below are to be believed, according to paulgraham's calculations, this might bump them into a ~fair range (when comparing to average/median earners).

https://www.nber.org/papers/w34170 https://www.propublica.org/article/how-we-calculated-the-tru...

Re: How to convert between wealth and income tax

#46
The conversion would be more accurate if it compared wealth and capital gains taxes, no?

A defining feature of wealth taxes is that they only tax those that make most of their income through capital gains. This is why they're popular among much of the population.

Now the question is, if we lowered capgains tax rate by 20% but instituted a 1% wealth tax, would that be better or worse? My guess would be worse because wealth taxes are nearly unenforcable, but I wonder if there are good arguments for the other position.

Re: How to convert between wealth and income tax

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just isn't true, unless you're the president. Who is the single largest taxpayer in US history? I'll wait while you google it.

Musk paid $11B in a year his wealth went up $86B on his way to likely being the first trillionaire. Are we supposed to cry about it? The median net worth in the US is ~$200k. A lot of middle-class folks have likely paid more taxes in their lifetime than their entire net worth .

Nope. Just not post things like "billionaires pay no taxes."

Re: How to convert between wealth and income tax

#49

[flagged]

I recently read 'the second estate' and reading about the number of loopholes the ultra wealthy exploit to pay almost no taxes and establish dynastic wealth does boil the blood.

Off the top of my head:

* 'Income' generated from loans using shares pledged as collateral should be treated the same as if you sold those shares.

* Someone receiving an inheritance over x million dollars (carve out 95% of family farms and small businesses if you want), should pay taxes on it as if it were any other windfall

* Donor advised funds should have a 5% distribution / yr requirement, same as private foundations

* capital gains should probably be treated as regular income. I have no idea why 50k in gains on INTC is somehow privileged over the salary paid to a roofer working in the hot sun.

Re: How to convert between wealth and income tax

#50

If you want to understand why someone would even propose taking from the rich and complain about inequality, this post titled "Inequality Talk Is About Grabbing " is illuminating: https://www.overcomingbias.com/p/inequality-is-about-grabbin...

> If you want to understand why someone would even propose taking from the rich and complain about inequality, Because they want to take back what was taken from them.

Why is that the case?
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