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Steve Wozniak cheered after telling students they have AI – actual intelligence

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Re: Steve Wozniak cheered after telling students they have AI – actual intelligence

#191

Post by Shalomboy »

joe_mamba wrote: post #160
alsetmusic wrote: post #90

The man is hailed as a brilliant nerd in our circles. I didn't realize he's a great public speaker. He really read the room. The "McKenzie"-style lady and Schmidt from Google (who really seemed to resent the pushback and chided graduates), can go to hell. I'm happy that someone is telling the young people who are likely to suffer because of this tech that they matter. I can't imagine how much angst much exist after t…

* * *

Eric Schmidt has no clearer a crystal ball than Woz has; to say one is telling the truth while the other is lying is not particularly objective of you.

Re: Steve Wozniak cheered after telling students they have AI – actual intelligence

#192

Post by akudha »

Wozniak has discussed his personal disdain for money and accumulating large amounts of wealth. He told Fortune magazine in 2017, "I didn't want to be near money, because it could corrupt your values ... I really didn't want to be in that super 'more than you could ever need' category."

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Wozniak

Stark contrast to other tech leaders...

Re: Steve Wozniak cheered after telling students they have AI – actual intelligence

#193

Post by itsalwaysgood »

whack wrote: post #107
dchftcs wrote: post #33

Unsurprising he'd be cheered for saying what they wanted to hear. But perhaps whether or not his stance is correct, the students needed to hear this. They (we) have to believe human brains still have value and find a way out; for otherwise there'd be no point to try anymore.

> They (we) have to believe human brains still have value and find a way out; for otherwise there'd be no point to try anymore. Our value isn't predicated on our utility. The simple fact that we are sentient beings, capable of joy and suffering, gives us value. This is why we continue to support and care for the elderly and the disabled - we value them regardless of any practical utility we may derive from them. If y…

The problem with public policy is that it allows other countries to get ahead of you. 'AI' isn't just a tool, it's also a race.

Re: Steve Wozniak cheered after telling students they have AI – actual intelligence

#194

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

gruez wrote: post #153
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thing that people have chosen to call AI is here today.

That just continues a tradition of moving the goalposts for "AI" to just beyond what's currently possible.

Kind of, but I wouldn't exactly put it like that since AI has never meant anything more than automated intelligence/decision making of some sort. The bar isn't moving, just this almost meaningless label is just forever getting slapped on the latest shiny new thing.

You could legitimately call a thermostat "AI". Expert systems were previously called AI. Today it's Large Language Models. Tomorrow it'll be something else.

Re: Steve Wozniak cheered after telling students they have AI – actual intelligence

#195

Post by kuerbel »

jve wrote: post #150
kuerbel wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in infrastructure (backups, networking etc) and no longer in software. I just don't see llms being that useful right now. If I have a problem and ask an LLM the answer is either fabricated or useless, rarely does it know what it's talking about. And yes I know how to describe the problem so that it has a chance to give an useful answer. Also even with agents, you can't just try and error your way out of some (…

Well Coding agents are being tackled. Infrastructure agents that would read your host event logs, device configuration, ilo, etc, etc - that is probably the missing piece. Having a chat with chatgpt may give you clues or ideas when you have gone throught your own checklist of what could have went wrong, but can go only as far. Agent on the other side will decompile .dll to find out issues if needed to go deep enought…

Might be but I just can't imagine a customer being fine with a loose cannon agent in their environment. E.g. coding agents are ignoring instructions. Who is to say that Claudes solution to a, say, slow backup isn't deleting the backup?

Re: Steve Wozniak cheered after telling students they have AI – actual intelligence

#196

Post by ponector »

liotier wrote: post #116
locopati wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also possible to walk away from tech. To stop chasing the demands of anything for a buck and focus on something real.

Yes - it is easier than ever thanks to AI !

You don't even need to do anything: layoffs will hit you anyway.

Re: Steve Wozniak cheered after telling students they have AI – actual intelligence

#197

Post by jcgrillo »

manmal wrote: post #101
websap wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame Dario, guy has been building something great, while selling snake oil. Having great tools means more impressive solutions, not fewer blacksmiths.

Blacksmiths is not the best analogy here.

Why not? Blacksmithing and coding have a hell of a lot in common. In both disciplines toolmaking is extremely important. Often you have to make custom tools to accomplish a design--e.g. a twisting wrench or a form tool. Sometimes you have to make tools that get used once and thrown away, like a jig temporarily welded to a piece to hold it in place while you build its sibling assembly. Sound familiar? I do this kind of thing all the time in code.

Another similarity is the relative simplicity of the underlying structure of the system. You essentially have two hammers (one small one you swing with your hand and another big one that is planted on the ground), some material, and some heat. You build the rest.

Another similarity is the resistance to automation. A skilled blacksmith is a versatile worker. You can create assembly lines to automate any one thing they might produce. The end product will not have the same quality--it will not truly be wrought iron, each piece will not be unique, there will be nothing of the aesthetic taste of the artist in it, but if you're just some bean counter who doesn't care about those things you'll be able to sell it. But if you need the optionality to produce any of those things.. automation is not your friend. And some things just cannot be automated, at least not without extreme costs or very poor results--shoeing horses comes to mind.

Re: Steve Wozniak cheered after telling students they have AI – actual intelligence

#198

Post by card_zero »

9dev wrote: post #178
card_zero wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's quite right, unless you personally value joy for its own sake. I value knowledge, and joy is useful to creating knowledge, and suffering is harmful to it. But I don't want to have some futile joy, and I don't need to avoid some irrelevant suffering. Otherwise you get effects like; * Just take drugs, feel meaningless "joy" because that's what you value, * Don't do anything less "joyful" even thoug…

> Otherwise you get effects like; > * Just take drugs, feel meaningless "joy" because that's what you value, > * Don't do anything less "joyful" even though it's more meaningful. These are entirely valid positions to take though. Obtaining knowledge for knowledge's sake isn't objectively more meaningful, even if it may be subjectively more valuable to you. You could make the point that teaching, and thus furthering t…

Oh, the Sapiens guy. I read Sapiens, thought it was OK, then other people picked holes in it and persuaded me that it was worse than that. But I suppose that doesn't preclude this Nexus book being good.

But anyway I agree: motivations are arbitrary. Why you even got to do a thing? Just sit and be sessile and die. (This is not a personal attack, or recommended.)

I rely heavily on an assumption that we do all have more or less the same set of values - but this might be cultural, not biological: it's hard to get inside the head of, say, Aztecs, with whatever strange non-modern values they had.

I also make an assumption about knowledge being central among those values, although it's definitely not all that, and some people will say they don't even consider it. But I think they are doing anyway, if they live in the world as we know it.

Side comment: you've made "joy" separate from "bliss" and "meaning" separate from "knowledge", and then there's some undefined "benefit for humanity" that might not be any of those things, along with the apparent value of "impacting the trajectory of humanity" - is that good, just impacting it, in any non-specific way? lol terminology.

Re: Steve Wozniak cheered after telling students they have AI – actual intelligence

#199

Post by Aboutplants »

This past fall I overheard a conversation between some high schoolers where one of the students was taking classes remotely for a while as she was dealing with some mental issues. She complained that while she needed the time away, it was just so easy to cheat with ChatGPT and be done with school for the day, and she went on to say that she really felt like she wasn’t learning anything and really was looking forward to returning to the classroom. This has stuck with me as the group of kids were just your average punk/emo high school kids.

Kids want to learn, they value learning, they get a sense of pride and accomplishment when they learn new things and concepts.

Re: Steve Wozniak cheered after telling students they have AI – actual intelligence

#200

Post by LargeWu »

jmathai wrote: post #175
joe_mamba wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* * *

Truth is the wrong word for a future outcome. But… Weren’t Schmidt’s comments on AI the harsh “truth” from the perspective of someone who directly benefits from the wealth extraction capabilities of AI? It’s not the only possible truth. And definitely not the one I’m rooting for personally. That’s what you are hearing from the audience of graduates who are probably quite fearful of their future and also prefer anothe…

Not only benefits from it, but the very one causing it to happen.
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