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Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

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Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#421

Post by shakna »

dhbradshaw wrote: post #123

To me this doesn't seem like a disaster but just the kind of thing that happens as you role out a service and expose it to new challenges. Presumably they haven't had the chance to do a lot of flood training but now they have that chance. The huge advantage they have over people in general is that ideally if they figure this out then it will stay figured out. Then they can slowly role out and watch for the next hitch…

We already have a huge number of safety regulations for cars, that take into account all these various things. There's also insurance that covers flood damage and cars. These are the things that red flag something you need to test, if you want to take over driving the car.

This isn't a new challenge - it is a known one!

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#422

Post by vrighter »

grumbel wrote: post #151
dhbradshaw wrote: post #123

To me this doesn't seem like a disaster but just the kind of thing that happens as you role out a service and expose it to new challenges. Presumably they haven't had the chance to do a lot of flood training but now they have that chance. The huge advantage they have over people in general is that ideally if they figure this out then it will stay figured out. Then they can slowly role out and watch for the next hitch…

I am a little worried that this is still a problem after 20 years. Don't they have simulators to test every weird and unexpected road condition offline? And flooded roads aren't exactly an unusual event to begin with.

testing cannot prove the absence of bugs. It can only prove that you didn't find any, which is a completely different thing

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#423

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #318
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were only in Arizona for a long time...

Assuming the rest of the continent is like Arizon also seems comforting...

Well fortunately the rest of the planet is a lot more similar to Arizona than Venus or the moon of the bottom of the Ocean, and they're already doing quite well in like 25 other markets, so...

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#424

Post by s3p »

hamdingers wrote: post #115
bhelkey wrote: post #109

Maybe a dumb question, why do electric cars have issues with water? My understanding was that ICE cars have trouble because water get's drawn into the engine. Water in the engine causes it to stall. And the engine must have air in flow and out flow. An electric car doesn't need air in the same way (no oxygen to ignite with gasoline, no air to compress and expand). Shouldn't electric cars to much better at driving thr…

They can drive through surprisingly deep water, but you'd still rather avoid it for a lot of reasons. Dangerous loss of traction and risk of getting swept away, soaked passengers will want a refund, and a sopping wet interior will take the vehicle out of service for a while.

>soaked passengers will want a refund

This is so funny. I can imagine customers floating along in their Waymo thinking, "wow I need a refund for this".

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#425

Post by nottorp »

Sharlin wrote: post #415
dhbradshaw wrote: post #123

To me this doesn't seem like a disaster but just the kind of thing that happens as you role out a service and expose it to new challenges. Presumably they haven't had the chance to do a lot of flood training but now they have that chance. The huge advantage they have over people in general is that ideally if they figure this out then it will stay figured out. Then they can slowly role out and watch for the next hitch…

An alternate viewpoint is that it looks like after 20 years they still haven't even started solving weather issues that you encounter anywhere outside a California climate.

That's the reality. For both them and Apple.

By the way, can these robotaxis handle intersections that aren't at 90 degrees?

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#426

Post by cess11 »

timmmmmmay wrote: post #381
jsrozner wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah maybe we should just stop doing that and invest in public transit infrastructure instead.

if you want people to use public transit, you need to make it not be a mobile homeless shelter. otherwise everyone who can afford to will insist on a private transport

Why are usians still allowing homelessness?

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#427

Post by ethbr1 »

mrits wrote: post #420
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people are going to build cheap houses, it makes sense to spend a little bit more on adding the hurricane ties (it's not like they're expensive or difficult to use). It might not be perfect, but it's surely better than just relying on gravity.

Do they not bolt the house to the slab in Florida? This is a main part of the inspection in Texas

They do. One req is continuous tension using approved connectors from roof down to slab.

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#428

Post by ethbr1 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #408
ethbr1 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or in Florida's case, mandate hurricane ties on timber homes so they can't lift off their slabs. One of the things that annoys me most about non-engineering mindsets is not looking at problems from a multivariate optimization perspective. There are problems, and then there are always more variables to be balanced to optimally solve them than people expect. The critical additional ones, more often than not: time and m…

> Or in Florida's case, mandate hurricane ties on timber homes so they can't lift off their slabs. That doesn't mitigate much. The mass of a paper and matchsticks "house" just isn't enough to resist it getting torn apart - if not by the wind, then by debris. The only kind of structure able to survive a dead-on hit is steel bar reinforced concrete or very, very solidly built brick-and-mortar. But that is expensive to…

> The only kind of structure able to survive a dead-on hit...

That isn't the goal, because the eyewall of a Cat 5 is minuscule in footprint compared to the surrounding wind bands.

Consequently, most houses are going to have to deal with those winds, for which timber bolted to slab + properly secured to roof is perfectly valid.

It's uneconomical to hurricane-proof all housing in Florida.

It's entirely possible (and has largely been done) to mitigate the bulk of hurricane wind impact (the lesser standard) for all housing in Florida.

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#429

Post by forgetfreeman »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #423
forgetfreeman wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the rest of the continent is like Arizon also seems comforting...

Well fortunately the rest of the planet is a lot more similar to Arizona than Venus or the moon of the bottom of the Ocean, and they're already doing quite well in like 25 other markets, so...

~80% of the population of the US lives east of the Mississippi, where road flooding is a dirt common event. Waymo's been smart so far to cherry pick markets that cater to their vehicles obvious limitations. That doesn't exempt them from criticism for failing to account for routine conditions in new areas they've chosen to move into. Additionally "doing quite well" is incoherent given it's been 17 years and Waymo is still unprofitable.

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#430

Post by spacebanana7 »

dmix wrote: post #352
cyberax wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of Waymo cars is immaterial right now. They are not production models, they are test mules. So you might as well make them nice-looking. Real mass-production cars will be comparable with regular cars in price. The sensor suite is not _that_ expensive.

Waymo is talking about scaling up operations globally and the market is competitive, the cost 100% does matter. They need large Chinese production lines for lidar, integration kits for cars plus the in car computing, repair pipelines for both sensors and cars, real estate to park cars, the infrastructure/processes to clean and charge them quickly, teams of remote drivers, insurance policies, etc. Then they need to co…

Google is capable of burning truly huge amounts of money on projects that look exciting and have long term prospects (e.g Youtube). They could lose $10-20 billion a year on Waymo for a decade if needed.

You can't just cancel Sergey's favourite pet project, regardless of economics.

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