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Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

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Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#341

Post by cyberax »

jimbo808 wrote: post #294
dhbradshaw wrote: post #123

To me this doesn't seem like a disaster but just the kind of thing that happens as you role out a service and expose it to new challenges. Presumably they haven't had the chance to do a lot of flood training but now they have that chance. The huge advantage they have over people in general is that ideally if they figure this out then it will stay figured out. Then they can slowly role out and watch for the next hitch…

The huge disadvantage they have over people is that their cars cost $250k, require a workforce of people to retrieve and repair them, maintain them, clean them, monitor them, etc. They are more expensive to operate than a normal car with a human driver, so far. The break-even point requires a lot of problems to be solved, and even then, the upside is not looking to be astronomical in the best case.

The cost of Waymo cars is immaterial right now. They are not production models, they are test mules. So you might as well make them nice-looking.

Real mass-production cars will be comparable with regular cars in price. The sensor suite is not _that_ expensive.

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#342

Post by blackoil »

cm2187 wrote: post #242
dhbradshaw wrote: post #123

To me this doesn't seem like a disaster but just the kind of thing that happens as you role out a service and expose it to new challenges. Presumably they haven't had the chance to do a lot of flood training but now they have that chance. The huge advantage they have over people in general is that ideally if they figure this out then it will stay figured out. Then they can slowly role out and watch for the next hitch…

The final boss will be driving in Rome

Come to an Indian city. You'll have cars, 2w, auto, cows coming from 7 directions everywhere.

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#343

Post by ehnto »

burnte wrote: post #175
grumbel wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a little worried that this is still a problem after 20 years. Don't they have simulators to test every weird and unexpected road condition offline? And flooded roads aren't exactly an unusual event to begin with.

In ATL this happens often enough that it's not a shock when it happens, we have lots of drainage problems here. I agree that I would have assumed Waymo had tested in events like this, but clearly not. So what I can say is running in ATL is a great test case for these events, and also the people who live here don't do a better job than Waymo did. There were dozens of people who ruined their cars yesterday trying to dr…

There is a pretty big difference between a citizen driving their car into danger, and a service provider driving their car into danger with you in it.

You wouldn't accept that from a taxi driver either. Pausing the service is the right move.

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#344

Post by stephenr »

Detrytus wrote: post #336
stephenr wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a child is "folded in half" by someone looking at their phone, no one accepts that as "good enough", and there is a direct action: the driver responsible will lose their licence and likely end up in prison. If it happens often enough, laws are changed. What happens when a Tesla does the same thing? Besides them lying and hiding information I mean. What remedial action is taken to reduce that specific risk from reo…

>If a child is "folded in half" by someone looking at their phone, no one accepts that as "good enough" But of course we do. Yes, we punish the individual driver that did it, but we still allow humans to drive cars. We accept the fact that driving a car carries sone risks, but we value the convenience of getting to our destination easily more than we value lives of those kids that will get killed from time to time.

> Yes, we punish the individual driver that did it, but we still allow humans to drive cars.

Yes because bad drivers aren't representative of all drivers. You also missed the part where laws are changed, safety laws are strengthened.

Oh wait. You're American aren't you.

In most of the world, laws are put in place to protect people. The Cybertruck for example, cannot be legally driven (regardless of not being for sale) in many countries because it doesn't meet pedestrian safety standards.

In my home state it's a finable offence to touch or even have your phone sitting in your lap while driving a car, and they've put detection cameras in place to enforce these laws.

So maybe define who you mean by "we" before claiming that people think kids being mutilated by negligent drivers of either the robotic or fleshy kind, is "good enough".

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#345

Post by beering »

jimbo808 wrote: post #337
JimTheMan wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disk drives were the size of washing machines. I don't see how they will ever be practical!

Not comparable at all. Autonomous driving isn't obviously a viable business. It's not because computer programs can't drive well, it's because the and workforce infrastructure required to maintain and operate the expensive fleet may be less efficient than a human maintaining their own vehicle.

Isn’t the implication there that Uber works because the drivers shoulder more costs and make less money, but Waymo won’t work because they have to shoulder all the costs?

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#346

Post by qsera »

JimTheMan wrote: post #303
jimbo808 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The huge disadvantage they have over people is that their cars cost $250k, require a workforce of people to retrieve and repair them, maintain them, clean them, monitor them, etc. They are more expensive to operate than a normal car with a human driver, so far. The break-even point requires a lot of problems to be solved, and even then, the upside is not looking to be astronomical in the best case.

Hard disk drives were the size of washing machines. I don't see how they will ever be practical!

Some technologies scale, some don't, at all. Your point is moot.

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#347

Post by nearbuy »

3498q2 wrote: post #218
RationPhantoms wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will posit something that guides my own thinking about this; robotaxis will never drink and drive. I'll take whatever flavor of mistake they conjure over that. I can deal with stupidity, I cannot (and don't want to) deal with malice.

Many people don't drink and drive either. You can drive defensively, choose your own route. Even on two lane roads: if an idiot overtakes into oncoming traffic there is usually just enough space for three vehicles next to each other. Can a Waymo move sharply to the right so there are two cars on each side with the overtaking idiot in the middle and all just fit on the road? I had to do that maneuver at least twice. C…

> Can a Waymo prevent a carjacking when someone places traffic cones in front of it?

Yes, actually, that's an advantage of a Waymo over a regular car. I believe they have a perfect record against carjackings despite several theft attempts. The Waymo computer isn't easily intimidated at gunpoint.

What do regular drivers do during a carjacking? They get carjacked. There are about 30,000 incidents per year in the US.

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#348

Post by cryptoegorophy »

etempleton wrote: post #90

This is really my bear case against AI. I am not against it. I actually think it is really neat! But we have been working on driverless cars for how long and spent how much? And still things like a flooded roadway completely throw them. Tesla failed to deliver driverless cars but now is pivoting to the much more complex fully autonomous robots. And we can’t get AI to stop hallucinating facts, but any day we are going…

Robots vs cars? Robots are much much safer. One is a killing machine going 100km/h, other one is a slow moving thing. You don’t need fast reaction for a robot. Tesla should’ve started with robots first and then self driving.

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#349

Post by jimjimjim »

I think I made a HN comment a few months/years ago about driverless cars having problems with floods across roads after watching a downpour in Kuala Lumpur flood half a street in minutes. The road was down to one lane and drivers in both directions took it in turns to use that one lane. That would be a difficult situation for a driverless car to handle.

Re: Waymo pauses Atlanta service as its robotaxis keep driving into floods

#350

Post by qsera »

rajbot wrote: post #313
HDBaseT wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A human has to pass a test to be able to drive. A human (for the most part) doesn't just unknowingly drive into floods. Why aren't we holding computers to AT LEAST the same expectation as humans.

A Waymo is already a dramatically safer driver than a human, and it isn’t even close. There have been, and will continue to be, many cases drive into flood zones and die.

>A Waymo is already a dramatically safer driver than a human, and it isn’t even close.

Driving safe is not always about having faster reaction speed.

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