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BBEdit 16

barebones.com

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Re: BBEdit 16

#51

Post by reaperducer »

wlesieutre wrote: post #44
bellowsgulch wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather software companies sell at more realistic prices so that they have a sustainable business, and signal to others in the industry that it's still possible to build a sustainable business. No, we should not praise software companies for hobbyist practices like selling $1 app on the App Store, which say, 30% goes to a digital distribution store, and then of your after distribution fees, about 20%+ percent…

Unfortunately Apple doesn’t allow paid updates short of releasing a whole separate app, and you can’t do upgrade discounts for current owners except via weird bundle discounts by sticking the new and old versions together as a package. So Apple is to blame for all the subscriptions.

Unfortunately Apple doesn’t allow paid updates short of releasing a whole separate app, and you can’t do upgrade discounts for current owners except via weird bundle discounts by sticking the new and old versions together as a package. So Apple is to blame for all the subscriptions.

We're talking about a macOS program, where companies don't have to bother with Apple's rules to sell their software, so your comment is off-topic.

Panic is good example of this kind of pricing.

Nova is $99 (last I checked), and gets updates for a year. After that, it's $75 for another year of updates.

If you don't want to update, you don't have to. You can even update every second or third year or whatever you want and catch up with all the missing features and updates.

Let's not just throw up our hands and say, "Oh, well. Apple makes me do this, so there's nothing I can do." Innovate.

Re: BBEdit 16

#52

Post by jms703 »

pokstad wrote: post #26
kennywinker wrote: post #19

In 1998 bbedit 5.0 cost $120 usd. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $245 usd. Today an individual license costs $60. Wild how software pricing and sales models have changed, and good on bare bones for staying away from subscription pricing.

The software world is different today. People expect you to release security updates as vulnerabilities are discovered. They expect you to fix your application so that it works on the newest macOS that deprecated and broke the old APIs you used (or switch architectures). We expect continuous maintenance for a fixed price. I wish Textmate had a yearly charge to keep their team running instead of the one time purchase…

Yep. Give people two choices.

1) Purchase a major version and get no updates.

2) Purchase a subscription and get constant updates.

Re: BBEdit 16

#53

Post by vl »

kennywinker wrote: post #19

In 1998 bbedit 5.0 cost $120 usd. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $245 usd. Today an individual license costs $60. Wild how software pricing and sales models have changed, and good on bare bones for staying away from subscription pricing.

And amazingly free version is very usable as well. It’s same BBEdit package, and without license it doesn’t activate extra features, which I don’t need anyway. They used to ship it as free separate editor TextWrangler and now rolled it in into main BBEdit instead.

Re: BBEdit 16

#54

Post by nofunsir »

pokstad wrote: post #26
kennywinker wrote: post #19

In 1998 bbedit 5.0 cost $120 usd. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $245 usd. Today an individual license costs $60. Wild how software pricing and sales models have changed, and good on bare bones for staying away from subscription pricing.

The software world is different today. People expect you to release security updates as vulnerabilities are discovered. They expect you to fix your application so that it works on the newest macOS that deprecated and broke the old APIs you used (or switch architectures). We expect continuous maintenance for a fixed price. I wish Textmate had a yearly charge to keep their team running instead of the one time purchase…

You're making this up to justify subscription model guilt. Nobody (besides those on here) EXPECTS this. In fact, most would rather live with the risks than deal with subscription model, let alone the headaches of updating and it breaking everything (i.e. causing a chain reaction that you have to update EVERYTHING in order to fix a small non-issue).

I, in fact, do NOT want continuous maintenance. Ever. I will literally never turn on auto-updates for the rest of my life.

Re: BBEdit 16

#55

Post by bayindirh »

jms703 wrote: post #52
pokstad wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The software world is different today. People expect you to release security updates as vulnerabilities are discovered. They expect you to fix your application so that it works on the newest macOS that deprecated and broke the old APIs you used (or switch architectures). We expect continuous maintenance for a fixed price. I wish Textmate had a yearly charge to keep their team running instead of the one time purchase…

Yep. Give people two choices. 1) Purchase a major version and get no updates. 2) Purchase a subscription and get constant updates.

Or use "The Dutch Model":

Pay for the major version, get all of its updates. Then pay for update (to next major plus its updates) with a discount.

If you don't prefer the pay, you can keep what you have.

This is what Reaper, Forklift, CameraBag and countless others do, and it works very well.

Edit: This comment contained Forklift as an example before, but they have changed their model, so it's removed.

Re: BBEdit 16

#56

Post by idle_zealot »

exe34 wrote: post #48
idle_zealot wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I miss blacksmiths gaining the ability to infinitely duplicate and teleport their finished pieces into people's hands? Can one learn this power?

Teleport? You mean over fiber optics that cost millions to install and maintain?

Hey, if it only cost millions to install and maintain a leyline network with magic circles capable of transmitting matter for pennies then I would count that as teleportation, yeah.

Re: BBEdit 16

#57

Post by simjnd »

pokstad wrote: post #41
hgs3 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is one major difference that separates the two eras: in ye olden days you bought software for a fixed price and while it's understood you might only receive updates for a limited time, you could continue using it so long as you had the ability to run it. For example, you didn't have to upgrade to Windows XP if you were satisfied with Windows 98. With subscriptions, it's a recurring fee to continue acces…

Windows sells more copies of its software the OEM route. Also, they sell specific versions that eventually end support. Today you might consider Windows almost a loss leader since Microsoft is diversified with many services on top of windows.

It ignores the point. If I've bought BBEdit 13 for 60 USD three years ago and I'm still happy with it, I can keep using it for the rest of my life without paying more. If I want the new features, then I can pay 40 USD to get the latest version.

This is a sane AND a sustainable model for companies, and actually creates MORE incentives for the developers to align with the user's interest: if the new update sucks and has features no one asked for, then nobody will pay for the new version and keep the old one.

There is no reason why previous versions of the software you paid a license for should effectively "disappear".

Re: BBEdit 16

#58

Post by ndegruchy »

dizhn wrote: post #24
ndegruchy wrote: post #4

> Support for vi keyboard emulation, for basic navigation and editing; I'm sure some people will like this update, but it's a big meh for me. I'll wait for some further updates to upgrade.

You can search for text within images.

That is genuinely a neat usage, but I don't find myself needing to search through images for text. I am glad they're still updating and working on BBEdit, but the major revision feels a little flat with features.

Re: BBEdit 16

#59

Post by bellowsgulch »

kstrauser wrote: post #34
bellowsgulch wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather software companies sell at more realistic prices so that they have a sustainable business, and signal to others in the industry that it's still possible to build a sustainable business. No, we should not praise software companies for hobbyist practices like selling $1 app on the App Store, which say, 30% goes to a digital distribution store, and then of your after distribution fees, about 20%+ percent…

No other professional field I know of lets workers invent and alter their own tools, collaboratively, for free, and share them for free with all their colleagues. If surgeons could wiggle their fingers and make a better scalpel, at no cost, and give a copy to all their friends, also at no cost, I bet they'd have some pretty spiffy scalpels going around soon and many docs would stop paying for them.

Your comment is hilarious, because of the people most suited to manufacture a better scalpel, it's people in healthcare because of their income being in the 1% of individual compensation distribution.

Amazingly, software does not have zero cost. You pay for hardware, software licensing, hosting, leases, fees, and administrative costs.

Where is this mythical no cost software you're talking about? Is it in the room with us right now?

Where does your income come from again? Is it this same zero cost software we're talking about right now? The same zero cost software that an employer pays you a salary and benefits for, or...?

Re: BBEdit 16

#60

Post by wlesieutre »

reaperducer wrote: post #51
wlesieutre wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately Apple doesn’t allow paid updates short of releasing a whole separate app, and you can’t do upgrade discounts for current owners except via weird bundle discounts by sticking the new and old versions together as a package. So Apple is to blame for all the subscriptions.

Unfortunately Apple doesn’t allow paid updates short of releasing a whole separate app, and you can’t do upgrade discounts for current owners except via weird bundle discounts by sticking the new and old versions together as a package. So Apple is to blame for all the subscriptions. We're talking about a macOS program, where companies don't have to bother with Apple's rules to sell their software, so your comment is…

I don’t think subscriptions for every single thing would have taken off the way it did if it hadn’t been for Apple forcing it on mobile where normal people use the most software. I do support software that isn’t subscription as much as I can. Alibre 3D is another good one, though not on Mac yet.
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