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Google Declaring War on the Web

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Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#311

Post by bluegatty »

nunez wrote: post #199
soundworlds wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who simultaneously makes music professionally, and works in IT professionally, it has been really interesting watching GenAI unfold, and the diverging cultures around it. It is almost like the world is splitting into two "societies": 1. One that loves AI + Big Business + very fast Innovation and disruption 2. One that loves Artisanal work + Small Business + slower but more sustainable innovation I personal…

I'm almost certain there is biblical-level astroturfing happening to make camp (1) much bigger than it really is. Otherwise, Schmidt wouldn't have drowned in a sea of boos at his commencement speech at UA.

No, the narratives are flooding in all directions.

A group of 22 year olds are 'hissing' because they're upset, not because they have some magic insight.

AI is real, it is overstated, the value is not comping to Main Street.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#312

Post by bostik »

rainbowDolphin wrote: post #223
technotarek wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a furniture maker, but I have a rather close connection to the industry. I used to hate ikea furniture. In fact I hated almost all modern furniture that mass market, that wasn’t high end. I was a huge proponent of vintage furniture ( and still am), but I have really come around on ikea. They sure still make some crap, but they also make some genuinely innovative pieces that can last if you treat them with a b…

Agreed. I was a carpenter for a long time and have built everything from completely disposable structures to things that ended up in Design Within Reach. I think Ikea is great. Sure, the cheaper stuff consists of veneered particle board at best. But they (at least used to) use thicker veneers, often include relatively high quality hardware, and make some products that are just completely solid (stainless kitchen gear…

Many of Ikea's wood (wood-like?) products are pretty flimsy, designed to be built once and never moved or taken apart. (cough - all cupboards, most cabinets - cough)

But somewhat ironically their steel kitchenware is competitive with catering equipment. It may not be as well designed for maximum functionality and storage packing efficiency, but costs about the same or even less than comparable Vogue gear. Over the years I've spotted an increasing number of street food vendors using Ikea bowls and trays, so the price and availability advantage appears to be real.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#313

Post by luk212 »

JohnBooty wrote: post #198
marcus_holmes wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make my own furniture. I am absolutely not a carpenter. But I hate Ikea furniture - it's made of shitty, flimsy, materials, and its design priorities are all based on cost and ease of transport, not on being great furniture that will last years and be an actual asset to the home. This is an analogy, obviously. Ikea has been innovative, and it does provide a useful service for people; if you just moved into a new pl…

Do you think that AI could actually free up time in your life in other areas, so that you could spend more time doing the things you love like making furniture? Or maybe help you directly in your furniture-making, by perhaps helping you to research things? Please don't misunderstand: my point is not "AI is good." It is problematic in many ways. My point is that I think the "AI versus actually doing cool human-crafted…

That's the promise of every new technology. Although there's been massive progress over the past 50+ years, the amount of free time that people have has actually gone DOWN (https://clockify.me/working-hours)..."I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and writing, not for AI to do my art and writing so that I can do my laundry and dishes"...we'll see

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#314

Post by bigfatkitten »

technotarek wrote: post #182
marcus_holmes wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make my own furniture. I am absolutely not a carpenter. But I hate Ikea furniture - it's made of shitty, flimsy, materials, and its design priorities are all based on cost and ease of transport, not on being great furniture that will last years and be an actual asset to the home. This is an analogy, obviously. Ikea has been innovative, and it does provide a useful service for people; if you just moved into a new pl…

I’m not a furniture maker, but I have a rather close connection to the industry. I used to hate ikea furniture. In fact I hated almost all modern furniture that mass market, that wasn’t high end. I was a huge proponent of vintage furniture ( and still am), but I have really come around on ikea. They sure still make some crap, but they also make some genuinely innovative pieces that can last if you treat them with a b…

Ikea is an interesting place in that you can get something that will either last either 15 minutes or 75 years. There really isn’t much in between.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#315

Post by imp0cat »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #162

First, did Google really declare a war? The title makes it feel click-baitey because of this exaggerated hyperbole. I like what Google is doing, huge fan. I can't fathom why no one else is. When I search, I'm trying to find things. With what Google is doing, the AI overview gets me answers very fast. It includes links for its sources I can click on if I'm interested. I think people are just too used to wasting hours…

    I like what Google is doing, huge fan. I can't fathom why no one else is. When I search, I'm trying to find things. With what Google is doing, the AI overview gets me answers very fast. It includes links for its sources I can click on if I'm interested.
Have you actually tried clicking those links and reading the sources? They can completely contradict what the AI is suggesting! I have witnessed this recently while trying to troubleshoot a leaking washing machine. The AI summmary gave a confident answer, but it was completely wrong - it was based on a different model/type. And the worst thing is that is sounded quite plausible.

tl;dr We're boned!

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#316

Post by wanoir »

bitwize wrote: post #297
marcus_holmes wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an interesting exception. The really rich people that I know of drive 10-year-old beaten-up Land Rovers, though. I think there's a nouveau-riche slice of folks who buy "luxury" cars thinking that they confer status. There are brands like this in every industry, that adopt all the pointers of "luxury" except actual quality.

There was a study sometime back that suggested most American millionaires live in homes of modest or at least unostentatious size and drive used cars of American make. These days it'd probably be of Japanese make, as Toyotas and Nissans are relatively cheap and last forever. Having a lot of money and showing the world that you have a lot of money are completely different goals. You'll be flat broke if you join an MLM…

> still seek out the good quality stuff at as good a price as he can manage and fix it up if it were broken.

I think that's a nice story to highlight, being able to do things well and preserving that knowledge

While there can be benefits for mass producing things, what actually is produced is going to be limited by what techniques are conducive to automation. So the techniques that are hard to automate are lost from the market of provided goods and then human capital for it also gets lost (can't think of any concrete examples off the top of my head, but maybe the techniques for some elements of clothing that are now only found in couture/custom pieces). Another related idea is how there are much fewer color variations in manufactured goods now, simply because it simplifies the mass manufacturing process.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#317

Post by pembrook »

Eyeland0 wrote: post #303
analogpixel wrote: post #29

I feel like AI has gotten to the point where the message is: If you want to make something (art/code/music/writing) you can do it for your own enjoyment, but you aren't allowed to make money from it anymore; only the large corporations can make money from content. If you do release something creative, it'll just be fed back into the machine to be copied over and over.

"And what does the money machine eat to shit it out? It eats youth, spontaneity, life, beauty and above all it eats creativity. It eats quality and shits out quantity." -William S. Burroughs

Yes, the craft to mass production pipeline (democratization) is frustrating for the individual craftsman, as has been true for hundreds of years.

AI is simply the assembly line for the digital realm. It takes the trendy products of the rich (custom software, McKinsey PowerPoint decks, etc) and mass produces them in the same style so everyone can afford to buy them at Walmart.

For things where the exclusivity WAS the value (like McKinsey consulting PowerPoints), they may fall out of fashion altogether when everyone can have them. Like performative 17th century aristocrat clothing styles.

I don’t see any of the AI protestors here exclusively wearing hand-loomed fabrics and bespoke clothing and $5,000 cobbler-pounded leather boots while typing angrily on their keyboards.

I also don’t see anyone commissioning artisan chair makers and blacksmiths to create $10,000+ custom furniture to sit on while posting pessimistic comments to HN.

Nobody here seems to want to hire a carriage maker to build a custom $400,000 automobile, they seem to all go for mass produced models, betraying the local artisans.

The hypocrisy is downright silly.

The 99% collective benefits from mass production at the expense of the 1% of artisans (and ultimately the artisans benefit too given nobody is a true artisan in more than a few things). This ultimately raises living standards for everyone.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#318

Post by palmotea »

soundworlds wrote: post #302
acdha wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s also a lot of people who haven’t quite realized what side they’re on. A ton of techies confused better than average pay with being part of the upper class and didn’t realize that the average CEO/VC views us roughly the same as the janitors except more expensive and less reliable. If you’re currently working at a stable tech job, it’s easy to focus on the cool things you can do and ignore how hungry th…

One of the funny parts about all of this, is that janitors are likely less threatened by GenAI than information workers are. Hell, janitors' work is less threatened by GenAI than most of the CEOs who are super-hyped about that very same GenAI. David Graeber's Bullshit Jobs might actually work as a roadmap of sorts..

> One of the funny parts about all of this, is that janitors are likely less threatened by GenAI than information workers are.

But that's cold comfort, because janitors are already paid shit wages.

The insecurity about AI isn't exactly "will I keep my job?" It's "will I be thrown into a life of precarity as my skills are devalued?"

Janitors aren't threatened by GenAI, because they're already where the threats take you.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#319

Post by techtuate »

A very interesting take indeed. I don't know how comments here have morphed into AI Bashing but my honest take: What google has done is self-preservation not declaring a war on creativity. They were ahead of everyone else on AI but they didn't reinvent "google" because it was unprofitable. Selling prime search slots which get clicked is far more money making than having most searches die at the AI summary (most of mine do). This is a hat tip to ChatGPT and Google's way of saying your UX is better than ours was. Let's offer a mix and see what we can salvage - both in revenue and users. In the long-term the corporate will have to look at alternate revenue streams and their forays into chip etc. are clear indicators of the same. I know it hurts us (read creators - I'm happy cowriting with AI) but Google is being true its shareholders and to its goal of making money and we can't blame them for it.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#320

Post by imp0cat »

jfengel wrote: post #90
DocTomoe wrote: post #78

Nobody is stopping you from publishing on the net. Nobody is stopping you from blocking bot traffic. You don't need search engines - you can just link between sites or have webrings. Like we used to, pre-2000. Nobody is stopping you from not using ads on the net. Nobody can force you to use non-essential cookies (and thus: a cookie-banner). Imagine there was a war going on, and no-one was showing up.

I don't think people much liked the pre-search-engine era. They used lousy search engines when they became available, and when a good one started they liked it so much that they verbed its name.

It is definitely an opportunity for a lot of stuff (ie. curated RSS feeds and other forms of discovery) to come back.
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