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Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

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Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#131

Post by willis936 »

ethanrutherford wrote: post #17

This makes me feel physically ill. It's like something straight out of a sci-fi dystopia, how did this get approved? Who determined that reinjecting biological activity into a human brain is definitely not some form of reanimation? If they're using heavy sedation to prevent electrical activity, is that not tacit admission they're not 100% sure that consciousness might return otherwise? How did this pass ethics review…

Approved? Ethics review? This is a private company. I was shocked when NYT Daily casually mentioned this exact behavior at Altos last week and just laughed it off. Like what is funny about making infinite torture machines because billionaires want to live forever?

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#132

Post by willis936 »

dhosek wrote: post #63
gavmor wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give credit where credit is due: Descartes, Kant, Putnam, etc.

Meditations on First Philosophy messed me up bad. All of Descartes’ reasoning about the inability to determine whether experience was real made complete sense to me. But when I got to where he started to try to build back reality, I didn’t buy it. I can only believe in reality by willfully forgetting Descartes.

But take comfort in knowing you are not the void. Cogito ergo sum. It's the only true refute of solipsism.

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#133

Post by [deleted] »

dhosek wrote: post #60
aetherspawn wrote: post #6

Live dissection and experimentation on “alive but drugged” human brains is mental. How do you ensure that you aren’t torturing a brain that can’t see, hear or scream? How are you held accountable?

When I had my ear surgery about 20 years ago, the doctor explained to me that I would be awake for part of the procedure, but the anesthesia meant that I would have no memory of it.¹ It’s a weird thing to think about whether that lack of memory would obviate the pain or discomfort of the moment. ⸻ 1. As it turned out, I was so frightened in the lead-up to the surgery that they had to do general anesthesia on me becau…

[deleted]

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#134

Post by abtinf »

JimTheMan wrote: post #118
abtinf wrote: post #11

I will be removing my organ donor status. This is horrifying.

I highly highly doubt that by consenting to be an organ donor you are consenting to this. Unless you live in some incredibly lawless country? Organ donation is so very sensitive, and those who use the service are so aware of the sensitivities I think that you'd be insane to have such a reaction to this media piece. In fact, I'll go one further. I have serious doubts you were ever an organ donor at all.

Your doubts are solidly founded; I can confirm I am not yet dead and my organs have not yet been donated.

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#135

Post by transitorykris »

dhosek wrote: post #63
gavmor wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give credit where credit is due: Descartes, Kant, Putnam, etc.

Meditations on First Philosophy messed me up bad. All of Descartes’ reasoning about the inability to determine whether experience was real made complete sense to me. But when I got to where he started to try to build back reality, I didn’t buy it. I can only believe in reality by willfully forgetting Descartes.

It’s really a solipsistic philosophy. The awkwardness of it was the fact he had a king and the church to appease in his arguments. Willfully forgetting Descartes is one way of dealing with it! (..or plotting a path out of it by reading him as a proto-existentialist)

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#136

Post by quirk »

prewett wrote: post #4

I just finished reading "That Hideous Strength" (CS Lewis) this weekend where they have a disembodied head kept "alive", and some convicts in the pipeline whose heads/brains, it is implied, will be experimented on similarly. Lewis was remarkably prophetic.

Came here to say this. The Space Trilogy is one of the best series I've ever read. That Hideous Strength reminds me a LOT of what's happening these days. Even moreso than 1984. Would love to see a great director tackle it as a film.

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#137

Post by gblargg »

evanjrowley wrote: post #92
yoyohello13 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purely anecdotal, but I had surgery a few years ago (relatively minor). But I could feel for months after a sort of 'unconscious PSTD' I don't know how else to describe it. Even after it was healed and the pain was gone, there was just a deep sense of 'something bad happened in there' feeling. I'd have dreams of someone digging around in my body. Anyway, it's all gone now, but a weird experience for sure.

PTSD can happen especially when something goes wrong with the anesthesia. Happened to a man named Sherman Sizemore many years ago: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/family-sues-after... Dramatized retelling of the story at 21m04s: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ny_s07D-LT8&t=1264s

There's also the movie Awake (2007) incorporating this element of being aware but unable to communicate it.

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#138

Post by mikeweiss »

EA-3167 wrote: post #19
aetherspawn wrote: post #6

Live dissection and experimentation on “alive but drugged” human brains is mental. How do you ensure that you aren’t torturing a brain that can’t see, hear or scream? How are you held accountable?

It's not a great article, and it glosses over the reality that if you hooked this brain up to an EEG it would show unequivocal brain death. CELLS of the brain are alive, but in terms of being able to function in any sort of coordinated way there that ship sailed minutes after the person who donated their organs died. The wave of depolarization that marks brain death isn't something we can reverse, and what's being do…

So your saying you would be comfortable putting yourself on the donor list then?

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#139

Post by gblargg »

hungryhobbit wrote: post #105

[flagged]

> MASS TORTURE MILLIONS OF NON-PET ANIMALS EVERY YEAR ... just so we can all have cheaper Big Macs.

Torture - the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#140

Post by DontBreakAlex »

wanoir wrote: post #128
DontBreakAlex wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is an interesting point I think for direct comparison, the way of re-animating the brain described in the article would need to be attempted on the cardiac arrest patient as well so as to be sure it isn’t a “revival”-capable method Might already be an obvious answer to practitioners in the field

My understanding is that after a few minutes without oxygen, the chemistry inside your brain is "fucked up" and even if you get oxygen back it's gone, you're already a vegetable. I like to think that "the state of the machine is gone" but I'm not a doctor
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