Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google Declaring War on the Web

tante.cc

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 466 posts

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#191

Post by phendrenad2 »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #27

I don't understand the endgame here. Websites let Google crawl their content in exchange of traffic. If Google cuts that out completely, what incentive do websites have to not block the Google crawlers? I understand that Google is feeling an existential threat from other AI products that provide answers directly. But they must also understand their symbiotic relationship with the web.

Information, correct information, is the new gold. We've seen what LLMs can do with the rubbish heap of information that is available on the current internet. The next step is refined, concise information sources. Think the Encyclopedia Britannica. And not only that, but models trained by experts. Right now everything is cheap and plentiful. Anyone can ask ChatGPT the same question and get the same middling answer. In the future, someone will make a dataset about a subject, train a model on it, and all the big companies and players in that area will pay for it.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#192

Post by fc417fc802 »

afavour wrote: post #70
xmcp123 wrote: post #56

Kind of curious how it would pan out, if there was a government enforced meta tag one could add to signal what the data could be used for - for example “no-ai”. That would allow people to still let Google to access their site, but restrict its usage. Similar for open source projects on GitHub, etc.

The tech giants already violated existing copyright laws when scraping for AI content and faced very few consequences. So far the government has shown an inability to enforce anything.

> inability

Unwillingness. The government (at least in the US) appears to be happy with the status quo because competitive AI is viewed as a strategic necessity.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#193

Post by JohnBooty »

soundworlds wrote: post #114
analogpixel wrote: post #29

I feel like AI has gotten to the point where the message is: If you want to make something (art/code/music/writing) you can do it for your own enjoyment, but you aren't allowed to make money from it anymore; only the large corporations can make money from content. If you do release something creative, it'll just be fed back into the machine to be copied over and over.

As someone who simultaneously makes music professionally, and works in IT professionally, it has been really interesting watching GenAI unfold, and the diverging cultures around it. It is almost like the world is splitting into two "societies": 1. One that loves AI + Big Business + very fast Innovation and disruption 2. One that loves Artisanal work + Small Business + slower but more sustainable innovation I personal…

This dichotomy is so false.

However else you feel, AI is a force multiplier, and that can also REALLY benefit "Artisanal work + Small Business"

I feel like the "one person app creator" business is so much more viable than it has been since Web 1.0

Five years ago, to run your own solo business in this space, you had to know most of the following: taxes, legal, backend, frontend, devops, iOS dev, Android dev, and marketing and then pay through the nose for most of the ones you didn't. AI helps to paper over a LOT of those gaps... and you can spend more time doing the shit that matters to your business.

You also needed time and lots of it, which is perhaps easy to come by if you're a trust fund baby or independently wealthy and don't have to work for a living but if you have a job and/or family is in extremely short supply

I used to run an online community on the side and I spent SO MUCH TIME doing IT/legal/finance drudgework that could have been spent, you know, engaging with the community and actually improving the product... that "artisinal work" for a "small business" you think you love.

There are of course major major problems with AI, like environmental concerns and others, but dichotomies like yours are not the way forward. At least not a good way forward.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#194

Post by noobermin »

px43 wrote: post #179
yakattak wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gamers don’t like AI.[1][2] I actually think indie studios that don’t use AI will do better than ones that do. 1: https://www.ign.com/articles/larian-ceo-responds-to-divinity... 2: https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/clair-obscur-expedition-33-ai...

Gamers don't like lazy slop. I've played quite a few games that utilized AI tooling to build them, and had a lot of fun.

I think the context makes it clear this is about llms and generative ai, not everything that includes a NN

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#196

Post by georgeecollins »

analogpixel wrote: post #29

I feel like AI has gotten to the point where the message is: If you want to make something (art/code/music/writing) you can do it for your own enjoyment, but you aren't allowed to make money from it anymore; only the large corporations can make money from content. If you do release something creative, it'll just be fed back into the machine to be copied over and over.

As someone (like other who have posted) who has made my living my whole life making art/ code, this is completely wrong!

What it threatened is the ad based "content" models where you put stuff up for free and sell ads against it. There's lots of ways to make money from any creative endeavor that has a lasting audience. I don't know if that includes talking into your phone or writing a personal journal about productivity hacks.

Things you make that are really good: a novel, a game, a short film, a song are still very valuable.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#197

Post by noobermin »

overgard wrote: post #80
analogpixel wrote: post #29

I feel like AI has gotten to the point where the message is: If you want to make something (art/code/music/writing) you can do it for your own enjoyment, but you aren't allowed to make money from it anymore; only the large corporations can make money from content. If you do release something creative, it'll just be fed back into the machine to be copied over and over.

I imagine it'll take a functional legal body to do this IE maybe europe, but I think there should be a legally binding set of metadata you can attach to images to specify that they must not be used for training (with real penalties if companies are caught)

Of course just like they did with engineering IP china will not respect such a thing.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#198

Post by JohnBooty »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #166
soundworlds wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who simultaneously makes music professionally, and works in IT professionally, it has been really interesting watching GenAI unfold, and the diverging cultures around it. It is almost like the world is splitting into two "societies": 1. One that loves AI + Big Business + very fast Innovation and disruption 2. One that loves Artisanal work + Small Business + slower but more sustainable innovation I personal…

I make my own furniture. I am absolutely not a carpenter. But I hate Ikea furniture - it's made of shitty, flimsy, materials, and its design priorities are all based on cost and ease of transport, not on being great furniture that will last years and be an actual asset to the home. This is an analogy, obviously. Ikea has been innovative, and it does provide a useful service for people; if you just moved into a new pl…

Do you think that AI could actually free up time in your life in other areas, so that you could spend more time doing the things you love like making furniture? Or maybe help you directly in your furniture-making, by perhaps helping you to research things?

Please don't misunderstand: my point is not "AI is good."

It is problematic in many ways. My point is that I think the "AI versus actually doing cool human-crafted stuff" split is... a misguided, maybe even harmful, mental model of a more complicated reality.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#199

Post by nunez »

soundworlds wrote: post #114
analogpixel wrote: post #29

I feel like AI has gotten to the point where the message is: If you want to make something (art/code/music/writing) you can do it for your own enjoyment, but you aren't allowed to make money from it anymore; only the large corporations can make money from content. If you do release something creative, it'll just be fed back into the machine to be copied over and over.

As someone who simultaneously makes music professionally, and works in IT professionally, it has been really interesting watching GenAI unfold, and the diverging cultures around it. It is almost like the world is splitting into two "societies": 1. One that loves AI + Big Business + very fast Innovation and disruption 2. One that loves Artisanal work + Small Business + slower but more sustainable innovation I personal…

I'm almost certain there is biblical-level astroturfing happening to make camp (1) much bigger than it really is.

Otherwise, Schmidt wouldn't have drowned in a sea of boos at his commencement speech at UA.

Post reply on HN