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Qian Xuesen: The missile genius America lost and China gained (2025)

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Re: Qian Xuesen: The missile genius America lost and China gained (2025)

#51
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they did make a biopic about a Charles Wilson and a war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Wilson%27s_War_(film)

That one, about a member of Congress, has a sex scene in a hot tub. It had movie potential. The Roy Krock movie worked because audiences understand McDonalds. Trying to explain the relationship between R&D policy and defense spending is much tougher. Although see Heinlein's "Destination Moon".

[deleted]

Re: Qian Xuesen: The missile genius America lost and China gained (2025)

#52

I feel like this article is leaving some important bits out for the sake of a narrative. From Wikipedia By the early 1940s, U.S. Army Intelligence was already aware of allegations that Qian was a communist This predates the red scare - at the time the US was in bed with "Uncle Joe" Stalin. While at Caltech, Qian had secretly attended meetings with J. Robert Oppenheimer's brother Frank Oppenheimer, Jack Parsons, and F…

Every other intellectual and artist was a communist or socialist back then, but not in any way that seriously threatened the state. They all happily worked on the bomb, after all.

Re: Qian Xuesen: The missile genius America lost and China gained (2025)

#53

Wernher von Braun didn't have a rival/opponent nation he could betray America to. Qian Xuesen did and did.

Did you forget that most of his colleagues worked with the USSR? Von Braun was just lucky that the US got to him and captured him first.

Von Braun was not "just lucky" to get captured by the US. He and his immediate staff took active steps to get captured by the Americans [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun#Surrender_to...

Re: Qian Xuesen: The missile genius America lost and China gained (2025)

#54
I don't think he is a communist, he just believe in people like Mao and he's party.

The other thing is,as a Chinese person, apart from a very small minority who are receptive to Western propaganda and hold anti-Han/chinese/china sentiments, the vast majority will eventually embrace their strong sense of nationalism.

This also applies to Chen-Ning Yang.

Re: Qian Xuesen: The missile genius America lost and China gained (2025)

#55
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Qian gave a talk about agriculture at the 6th Supreme State Conference in 1956, Mao directly talked to Qian about his article in 1958 '你在青年报上写的那篇文章我看了,陆定一同志很热心,到处帮你介绍。你在那个时候敢于说四万斤的数字,不错啊。你是学力学的,学力学而谈农业,你又是个农学家。', while later Qian admitted it was theoretically only and he miscalculated, he probably did it out of modesty and he didn't say shit about his impact on tens of millions of death whatsoever. In fact, Mao's sec…

Thanks for the correction. That sucks then. Dude should have stayed in his lane making rockets instead of commenting on agriculture.

It's a compelling example of the common phenomenon where a certified genius in one field makes a blunder by attempting to reason from first principles to analyze a problem in another field. Not that such things never work; there are success stories too, but it's not guaranteed.

Re: Qian Xuesen: The missile genius America lost and China gained (2025)

#56

I feel like this article is leaving some important bits out for the sake of a narrative. From Wikipedia By the early 1940s, U.S. Army Intelligence was already aware of allegations that Qian was a communist This predates the red scare - at the time the US was in bed with "Uncle Joe" Stalin. While at Caltech, Qian had secretly attended meetings with J. Robert Oppenheimer's brother Frank Oppenheimer, Jack Parsons, and F…

Every other intellectual and artist was a communist or socialist back then, but not in any way that seriously threatened the state. They all happily worked on the bomb, after all.

I don't claim to be an expert on this case.

But I can tell when things are being omitted or glossed over.

Re: Qian Xuesen: The missile genius America lost and China gained (2025)

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every other intellectual and artist was a communist or socialist back then, but not in any way that seriously threatened the state. They all happily worked on the bomb, after all.

I don't claim to be an expert on this case. But I can tell when things are being omitted or glossed over.

It does not detail those facts. I gloss over them in my reading of the article because I think the topic is been well covered elsewhere. For example, the Oppenheimer movie did a fair job of depicting the communist party activities among intellectuals in the late 1930s.

The fact that those activities led to a thing called McCarthism in the early 1950s is pretty well documented.

Imprisoning Qian for 5 years for a meeting in the late 1930s after his contributions to the war effort was very Red Scare consistent.

Re: Qian Xuesen: The missile genius America lost and China gained (2025)

#58
post #6

That's fascinating. The article points out that nobody made a movie about this guy. That's mostly because a movie about someone who's an expert at building organizations is boring. Nobody ever made a biopic about Charles Wilson, head of defense production at General Motors during WWII, and later US Secretary of Defense. Hyman Rickover, who headed the 1950s effort to build nuclear submarines and warships, only has a l…

I'd love to see a movie about the "managers" Mervin Kelly and/or William Shockley. Less military oriented perhaps, but seems that period of Bell Labs just was something else for some reason, in terms of impact on the world.

Re: Qian Xuesen: The missile genius America lost and China gained (2025)

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be a cautionary tale. How many geniuses are leaving the US right now due to Xenophobia?

Is China a great place to flee to for victims of xenophobia? A new safe haven?

Kind of a non-issue when we won't let them stay. I know several Chinese nationals who: received STEM degrees in the US, really wanted to stay, but struggled to get a visa and ended up back in China.

Re: Qian Xuesen: The missile genius America lost and China gained (2025)

#60
post #6

That's fascinating. The article points out that nobody made a movie about this guy. That's mostly because a movie about someone who's an expert at building organizations is boring. Nobody ever made a biopic about Charles Wilson, head of defense production at General Motors during WWII, and later US Secretary of Defense. Hyman Rickover, who headed the 1950s effort to build nuclear submarines and warships, only has a l…

They made a movie about Herman Kahn of the Rand Corporation, though. It was called “Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb”.

Well, that might have been a movie about Edward Teller, or possibly John von Neumann. Nobody is quite sure.

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