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Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

science.org

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Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#31

Post by saalweachter »

acdbddh wrote: post #22

To be honest, if my only other option was to be buried, I would love to let my brain be connected to some machine that try to keep it as alive-like as possible. Just please don't remove my brain before I'm 1000% certainly dead.

To some extent, volunteering for any sort of medical study is signing up to be tortured in the hopes that someone down the line might be saved by the research. Most cancer treatments, for instance, are objectively terrible to go through, and when you're testing and developing the protocols you're pumping already sick people full of poisons and hoping for the best.

There's some fraction of people who would prefer to be kept alive as a brain in a jar, depending on the alternatives, but getting to that point is going to require a bunch of people to volunteer to undergo excruciating torture as we learn how to keep the brain alive, how to keep them comfortable, how to keep them conscious, sane and let them interact with the world.

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#32

Post by Barbing »

garethsprice wrote: post #13
aetherspawn wrote: post #6

Live dissection and experimentation on “alive but drugged” human brains is mental. How do you ensure that you aren’t torturing a brain that can’t see, hear or scream? How are you held accountable?

From the article: > The brains are already almost devoid of the coordinated neural firing necessary even for minimal consciousness, says Brendan Parent, a bioethicist at New York University Langone Health and one of six ethicists on Bexorg’s advisory board. But the company also forestalls any electrical activity with the anesthetic propofol, among other measures.

I recognized that anesthetic from its famous irresponsible use-

"Attention to the risks of off-label use of propofol increased in August 2009, after the release of the Los Angeles County coroner's report that musician Michael Jackson was killed by a mixture of propofol and the benzodiazepine drugs lorazepam, midazolam, and diazepam on 25 June 2009." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propofol

Used properly, however:

"To induce general anesthesia, propofol is the drug used almost exclusively, having largely replaced sodium thiopental."

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#33

Post by hypfer »

1234letshaveatw wrote: post #29
garethsprice wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > The brains are already almost devoid of the coordinated neural firing necessary even for minimal consciousness, says Brendan Parent, a bioethicist at New York University Langone Health and one of six ethicists on Bexorg’s advisory board. But the company also forestalls any electrical activity with the anesthetic propofol, among other measures.

I could've done without reading the word almost

[flagged]

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#34

Post by pavel_lishin »

1234letshaveatw wrote: post #29
garethsprice wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > The brains are already almost devoid of the coordinated neural firing necessary even for minimal consciousness, says Brendan Parent, a bioethicist at New York University Langone Health and one of six ethicists on Bexorg’s advisory board. But the company also forestalls any electrical activity with the anesthetic propofol, among other measures.

I could've done without reading the word almost

That's before they apply the anaesthetic.

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#36

Post by sodaplayer »

gavmor wrote: post #30
acheron wrote: post #5

“We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?” Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7 Ac…

Give credit where credit is due: Descartes, Kant, Putnam, etc.

It'll be Brian Reynolds in this case. It's a quote from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri.

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#37

Post by stavros »

Barbing wrote: post #32
garethsprice wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > The brains are already almost devoid of the coordinated neural firing necessary even for minimal consciousness, says Brendan Parent, a bioethicist at New York University Langone Health and one of six ethicists on Bexorg’s advisory board. But the company also forestalls any electrical activity with the anesthetic propofol, among other measures.

I recognized that anesthetic from its famous irresponsible use- "Attention to the risks of off-label use of propofol increased in August 2009, after the release of the Los Angeles County coroner's report that musician Michael Jackson was killed by a mixture of propofol and the benzodiazepine drugs lorazepam, midazolam, and diazepam on 25 June 2009." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propofol Used properly, however: "To i…

Apparently MJ was taking propofol to sleep, which another commenter said was akin to "getting a haircut by undergoing chemo".

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#39

Post by hungryhobbit »

stavros wrote: post #37
Barbing wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recognized that anesthetic from its famous irresponsible use- "Attention to the risks of off-label use of propofol increased in August 2009, after the release of the Los Angeles County coroner's report that musician Michael Jackson was killed by a mixture of propofol and the benzodiazepine drugs lorazepam, midazolam, and diazepam on 25 June 2009." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propofol Used properly, however: "To i…

Apparently MJ was taking propofol to sleep, which another commenter said was akin to "getting a haircut by undergoing chemo".

Between what he did to children, and what his parents did to him, it's hard to really blame the guy for having extreme sleep problems though.

Re: Not alive, but not dead: disembodied human brains used for drug testing

#40

Post by genxy »

EA-3167 wrote: post #19
aetherspawn wrote: post #6

Live dissection and experimentation on “alive but drugged” human brains is mental. How do you ensure that you aren’t torturing a brain that can’t see, hear or scream? How are you held accountable?

It's not a great article, and it glosses over the reality that if you hooked this brain up to an EEG it would show unequivocal brain death. CELLS of the brain are alive, but in terms of being able to function in any sort of coordinated way there that ship sailed minutes after the person who donated their organs died. The wave of depolarization that marks brain death isn't something we can reverse, and what's being do…

> isn't something we can reverse

Until you hook it up to a lightening rod in the top of a castle!

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