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An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

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Re: An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

#221

As I have stated before, AI will win a fields medal before it can manage a McDonald's A difficult part was constructing a chess board on which to play math (Lean). Now it's just pattern recognition and computation. LLMs are just the beginning, we'll see more specialized math AI resembling StockFish soon.

Lee Sedol, Move 37 https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1l0z5yk/the_mo... Edit: I wasn't necessarily disagreeing. But on second thought the chessboard in this math analogy is being built, not just played in. This Hardy quote comes to mind https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/902543-it-proof-by-contradi...

My claim is that we haven't even witnessed the move 37 of math yet. I am claiming that math AI is going to get even better

Re: An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

#222

To the “LLMs just interpolate their training data” crowd: Ayer, and in a different way early Wittgenstein, held that mathematical truths don’t report new facts about the world. Proofs unfold what is already implicit in axioms, definitions, symbols, and rules. I think that idea is deeply fascinating, AND have no problem that we still credit mathematicians with discoveries. So either “recombining existing material” isn…

I'd hope most functional adults understand that the Fields Medal and basically every other annual "prize" out there is awarded to both "recombinant" innovations and "new-dimensional thinking" innovations. Humans aren't going to come up with "new-dimensional" innovations in every field, every single year.

I'd say yes, LLMs "just" recombine things. I still don't think if you trained an LLM with every pre-Newton/Liebniz algebra/geometry/trig text available, it could create calculus. (I'm open to being proven wrong.) But stuff like this is exactly the type of innovation LLMs are great at, and that doesn't discount the need for humans to also be good at "recombinant" innovation. We still seem to be able to do a lot that they cannot in terms of synthesizing new ideas.

Re: An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

#223

See the longstanding debate on whether new math is "invented" or "discovered". Most mathematicians I knew thought it's discovered.

This is like saying a sculpture always existed, the sculptor just had to remove the superfluous material.

Or like a musical octave has only 12 semitones, so all music is just a selection from a finite set that already existed.

Sure the insane computation we're throwing at this changes our perspective, but still there is an important distinction.

Re: An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

#224
The proof brings unexpected, sophisticated ideas from algebraic number theory to bear on an elementary geometric question.

The more I read about these achievements the more I get a feeling that a lot of the power of these models comes from having prior knowledge on every possible field and having zero problems transferring to new domains.

To me the potential beauty of this is that these tools might help us break through the increasing super specialization that humans in science have to go through today. Which in one hand is important on the other hand does limit the person in terms of the tooling and inspiration it has access to.

Re: An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

#225

To the “LLMs just interpolate their training data” crowd: Ayer, and in a different way early Wittgenstein, held that mathematical truths don’t report new facts about the world. Proofs unfold what is already implicit in axioms, definitions, symbols, and rules. I think that idea is deeply fascinating, AND have no problem that we still credit mathematicians with discoveries. So either “recombining existing material” isn…

There is a creational aspect in math - definitions and rules are created.

Re: An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

#226
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. It will be able to perform work deserving if a fields medal before it is capable of running a McDonalds. I think it will be running a McDonalds well before either of those things happen, and a fields medal long after both have happened.

Not necessarily. Obviously playing Kasparov on the board requires more planning ability than managing a McDonald's but look at where chess bots are now. There's much more to being human than our "cognitive abilities"

Conjecture: the first AI to successfully manage a McDonald’s will be a Gemini.

Re: An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

#227

To all AI skeptics: What is preventing AI from continuing to improve until it is absolutely better than humans at any mental task? If we compare AI now vs 2022 the difference is outstandingly stark. Do you believe this improvement will just stop before it eclipses all humans in everything we care about?

That’s one possibility. If it fails to convince a critical mass that it’s a net improvement in their lives, then the impediment to continual improvement will be sabotage.

Re: An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

#228

The summarized chain of thought for this task (linked in the blogpost) is 125 pages. That's an insane scale of reasoning, quite akin to what Anthropic has been teasing with Mythos.

That's here for anyone wondering - https://cdn.openai.com/pdf/1625eff6-5ac1-40d8-b1db-5d5cf925d...

Re: An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

#229

To the “LLMs just interpolate their training data” crowd: Ayer, and in a different way early Wittgenstein, held that mathematical truths don’t report new facts about the world. Proofs unfold what is already implicit in axioms, definitions, symbols, and rules. I think that idea is deeply fascinating, AND have no problem that we still credit mathematicians with discoveries. So either “recombining existing material” isn…

This is a good point, and there’s some deep philosophical questions there about the extent to which mathematics is invented or discovered. I personally hedge: it’s a bit of both.

That said. I think it’s worth saying that “LLMs just interpolate their training data” is usually framed as a rhetorical statement motivated by emotion and the speaker’s hostility to LLMs. What they usually mean is some stronger version, which is “LLMs are just stochastically spouting stuff from their training data without having any internal model of concepts or meaning or logic.” I think that idea was already refuted by LLMs getting quite good at mathematics about a year ago (Gold on the IMO), combined with the mechanistic interpretatabilty research that was actually able to point to small sections of the network that model higher concepts, counting, etc. LLMs actually proving and disproving novel mathematical results is just the final nail in the coffin. At this point I’m not even sure how to engage with people who still deny all this. The debate has moved on and it’s not even interesting anymore.

So yes, I agree with you, and I’m even happy to say that what I say and do in life myself is in some broad sense and interpolation of the sum of my experiences and my genetic legacy. What else would it be? Creativity is maybe just fortunate remixing of existing ideas and experiences and skills with a bit of randomness and good luck thrown in (“Great artists steal”, and all that.) But that’s not usually what people mean when they say similar-sounding things about LLMs.

Re: An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

#230

To the “LLMs just interpolate their training data” crowd: Ayer, and in a different way early Wittgenstein, held that mathematical truths don’t report new facts about the world. Proofs unfold what is already implicit in axioms, definitions, symbols, and rules. I think that idea is deeply fascinating, AND have no problem that we still credit mathematicians with discoveries. So either “recombining existing material” isn…

Recombining existing material is exactly right, and in this case LLMs were uniquely positioned to make the connection quicker than any group of humans. The proof relies on extremely deep algebraic number theory machinery applied to a combinatorial geometry problem. Two humans expert enough in either of those totally separate domains would have to spend a LONG time teaching each other what they know before they would…

Monstrous Moonshine?
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