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How fast is N tokens per second really?

mikeveerman.github.io

31–40 of 105 posts

Re: How fast is N tokens per second really?

#31
post #24
post #12

This is great. Agentic coding at 600+ tokens/sec is going to be a radically different beast. Coming soon-ish?

Do you have ideas/suggestions for agentic workflows that only start making sense at such speeds?

Branching strategies, do 10 things in parallel and evaluate for the best at the end or something along the lines of an evolutionary algorithms. Turn up the temperature on an LLM and have a survival mechanism, and generate solutions to the same problem over and over.

Re: How fast is N tokens per second really?

#32

Interesting. It seems to me that with that speed (20-30) on local hardware the real issue is quality of output, not tokens per sec.

It really depends. With the new "thinking" models they usually spend some time before writing the final answer. If they "think" for 1k tokens, that's a minute of spinning wheel you're gonna see for each question. Add that to the prompt processing, and diminishing speeds as context increases, and it becomes really slow for longer sessions.

Reminds me of the possibility of running DeepSeek at 3-4 t/s with SSD streaming, could be viable if you are running something overnight for example

Re: How fast is N tokens per second really?

#33
post #20

Token/sec only makes sense once you tell me three four things: 1. decoding t/s, that is, when the model is generating text in the autoregressive fashion. 2. prefill t/s, that is, prompt processing speed. 3. What is the slope of those two numbers as the context size increases. An implementation that decodes at 50t/s with 2k context but decodes at 7t/s at 100k context is going to be a lot less useful that it seems at a…

Agreed. Prefill kills me for local model work. The model reads much faster than it writes, but I'd love to get a sense for how fast the model can read large source conversations.

Re: How fast is N tokens per second really?

#35
I'm flashing back to using a 1200 baud modem when the world was on 28.8k. Modems are much more regular-looking, though, since each character is a character. Unless you count color changes and such, which you only really notice at 1200...

Re: How fast is N tokens per second really?

#37
This reminds me of when I signed up for cerebras to try it out and dumped $20 in and hooked it into opencode and the speed was truly insane. But my one session burnt through like $15 of that in seemingly a matter of minutes. I've since used those really high tok/s options for specific application use cases, but would not advise as a coding agent. Much harder to catch issues when it is moving a million miles an hour and then it is too late and it has already spent a ton of tokens.

Re: How fast is N tokens per second really?

#38
post #12

This is great. Agentic coding at 600+ tokens/sec is going to be a radically different beast. Coming soon-ish?

People seem to use these tools very differently from each other. I value intelligence over speed any day. My programs are written in Haskell, so there are rarely any tasks which require thousands and thousands of lines to solve. Just intelligence. If there are rote tasks, I want the LLM to help me find intelligent ways of automating it: the right abstraction, the right meta-programming technique. I constantly push Op…

Why do you use Haskell? Why not something that produces a more predictable memory use at runtime? (I’m asking earnestly as a former Haskeller turned Rustacean who sees the value in “Boring Haskell”, but favours strictness for anything internet-facing and many things that aren’t compilers.)

Re: How fast is N tokens per second really?

#39
post #29

I think your demo need more realistic thinking logs because thinking usually burns at least 2x to 3x of tokens of the code and for harder tasks much more.

Indeed, at 30tok/s make it pause for 20 seconds while "thinking" is streaming (and hidden); that's the real experience.

Re: How fast is N tokens per second really?

#40
It's interesting how even 5 tok/s is still much faster than you'd typically type, but feels glacially slow for an agent.

On the other hand, I've been using Mimo and Minimax a lot recently. They routinely reach 100-150 tokens per second and that feels too fast, to the point where it's hard to keep up with what it's actually doing. Great for subagents though.

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