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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

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Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#601

Post by rootsu »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #462
cfontes wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIX from Brazil is even better, to be honest. But this is a big improvement over online CC payment. I lived in the NL and Brazil, so I can compare the two, and while iDEAL is pretty good, PIX is easier to understand, explain, and deal with. PIX has more variants, you can use it for recurrent payment, split payments, financing, cashout and almost all things a CC can do nowadays. I would say Tikkie is almost as good an…

This is a brilliant response. I love personal anecdotes like this that meaningfully contribute to a better conversation on HN. First: PIX sounds insanely good! I wish I had it where I live. My follow-up question: Can anyone with experience with India's Unified Payments Interface (UPI) comment about capabilities compared to PIX? It is frequently lauded as one of the best e/mobile payment services in the (developing) w…

Judging from what I am reading about PIX capabilities, UPI can do everything. It can also allow you to make merchant payments from Rupay credit cards. It also supports automatic recurring payments.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#602

Post by Fokamul »

joe_mamba wrote: post #597
Fokamul wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse? Are you serious? In EU, Czechia. Foreign(french lol) banks are banning accounts because you work in gun manufacturing industry. In EU. When 2 countries from you, there is a FCKIN' war happening. Only because France, Germany, UK and similar countries are against guns and against self-defense, where your only option is to lay on the ground and let the attacker kill you. Luckily we can still use guns for self-def…

>In EU, Czechia. Foreign(french lol) banks are banning accounts because you work in gun manufacturing industry. In EU. When 2 countries from you, there is a FCKIN' war happening. That shouldn't be happening. French banks on Czech soil should operate under Czech, not French laws. Otherwise the Czech banking authorities should go after them. Something is fishy about that. Also, which banks do French citizens working in…

Yes this is very bizarre.

But this is official story, contractors and employees who worked for Czech arms manufacturer got their personal! accounts disabled.

They had mortgages in these accounts and bank notify them to move mortgage elsewhere.

Reason given by bank, broken internal policy, we cannot disclose which. Goodbye.

https://militarnyi.com/en/news/czech-banks-discriminate-agai...

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#603

Post by maxglute »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #284
jeroenhd wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some countries there is a payment system that works by generating QR codes at checkout and scanning those with your phone. I don't know if Wero intends to also support those, but it could make for a direct integration into live checkout. I think the Digital Euro initiative is closer to replacing contactless payments than Wero is, but it'll depend on the country I think.

IMHO, QR codes are a big step back from contactless and appeared in countries that didn't have widespread card adoption (e.g. China),

QR codes also decouples merchants from POS systems, so it's massively more flexible and step forward if people want to do stuff and get paid. Contactless payment is faster, but PRC also rolling out palm to pay which is much faster/convenient vs tap. IMO optimal coverage is probably QR codes and skipping tapping straight for palm scanning.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#604

Post by joe_mamba »

Fokamul wrote: post #602
joe_mamba wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In EU, Czechia. Foreign(french lol) banks are banning accounts because you work in gun manufacturing industry. In EU. When 2 countries from you, there is a FCKIN' war happening. That shouldn't be happening. French banks on Czech soil should operate under Czech, not French laws. Otherwise the Czech banking authorities should go after them. Something is fishy about that. Also, which banks do French citizens working in…

Yes this is very bizarre. But this is official story, contractors and employees who worked for Czech arms manufacturer got their personal! accounts disabled. They had mortgages in these accounts and bank notify them to move mortgage elsewhere. Reason given by bank, broken internal policy, we cannot disclose which. Goodbye. https://militarnyi.com/en/news/czech-banks-discriminate-agai...

>Reason given by bank, broken internal policy, we cannot disclose which. Ridiculous.

I'm sure what they did was illegal, the problem with such cases is that even if you take them to court and win, you'll still lose a lot of time, money and stress in the process of fighting a bank in court, while for the bank the lawsuit is just another small business expense.

Centrain industries and businesses tend to act above the law even if they know they're in the wrong simply because the punishments if they get caught are too lax.

That's why I'm a big fan of direct personal accountability. Like the person working at the bank who made the choice to close the accounts should go to jail. Because otherwise nefarious people simply hide behind the accountability shield of a large org where nobody is responsible for anything and accountability is always deflected.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#605

Post by spamizbad »

leereeves wrote: post #550
spamizbad wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got some (bad?) news for you: Most Americans are either in complete denial over this or genuinely don't care. They don't think the wealth and lifestyles they enjoy have anything to do with the US' status as a global hegemon. Some even think the relationship is inverted, believing that as the world de-Americanizes, Americans will somehow benefit from this.

> Some even think the relationship is inverted, believing that as the world de-Americanizes, Americans will somehow benefit from this. That may well be true of the working class, who receive nothing from the foreign income multinational corporations earn but face more competition to buy housing from the people who do receive a share, and more competition for jobs from foreigners (both immigration and globalization).

The people who hold these views are overwhelmingly not members of the working class. They're retirees or Gen-Xers coming off their peak earning years.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#606

Post by lxgr »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #569
lxgr wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want many payments to be pull-based (at least I'd go crazy having to positively sign off every utility bill and subscription), but the ideal user interface for pull payments shows who exactly is pulling what, with a few days notice, and a one-click way to cancel any standing authorization.

That still works. There are three entities: customer, bank and merchant. The merchant should never be able to pull from your bank account. However, the merchant can send an invoice for a payment. Either the customer manually pushes the payment, or delegates to the bank that each invoice from merchant X should immediately result in a payment push [1]. The difference from the pull system is that the customer can at any…

> [...] the merchant can send an invoice for a payment. Either the customer manually pushes the payment, or delegates to the bank that each invoice from merchant X should immediately result in a payment push [1].

This already very close to how SEPA direct debits currently operate. I can instruct my bank with one click to stop honoring a given direct debit mandate (they'll then block all further payments under the same mandate reference), request any payment to be reversed for any reason (that I don't have to provide) etc.

The only difference to your suggested model is that the default is to honor all new mandates. I believe nothing – operationally or from a scheme perspective – prevents banks from requiring positive confirmation for every new mandate or even every single direct debit, though, and some banks (but not mine) even support this.

> in the pull system the customer can only beg the merchant (eg. the gym) to stop charging their account.

Not for SEPA direct debits, in any case.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#608

Post by cortesoft »

jbverschoor wrote: post #572
cortesoft wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I have to get out my phone every time I use my credit card on my computer?

That’s why we don’t pay 3%+ on all transactions

I get 3% cash back, though.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#609

Post by Borealid »

lxgr wrote: post #323
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks and Visa/Mastercard probably love that you fill out your CC details on an online store, and next time you can just 1-click pay. Probably causes a big jump in revenue/profit. That's why they never innovated much. Of course, it is incorrect, and digital payments everywhere (on a kiosk or online) should be intentional pushes, not pulls.

I want many payments to be pull-based (at least I'd go crazy having to positively sign off every utility bill and subscription), but the ideal user interface for pull payments shows who exactly is pulling what, with a few days notice, and a one-click way to cancel any standing authorization.

This is actually how it works in India with "e-mandates".

In order to set up a recurring bill the merchant must get a "mandate" from the customer, which involves them approving the amount/frequency/term of the payment. The customer can at any time view a list of open mandates on their bank's web site/app and cancel any they wish. Recurring payments only succeed when the mandate remains valid.

The payment amount may be revised downward without getting a new mandate, but raising it up requires replacing the old mandate with a new one.

In order to make a non-initial charge the merchant must pre-authorize it with the bank a few days prior (handing the ID of mandate under which the charge is made to the bank), and pass the confirmation they get back from the bank when they do the real charge. The bank notifies the customer about the upcoming renewal and its amount.

IMO this is exactly how it should work.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#610

Post by ExtraRoulette »

switchbak wrote: post #543
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dang has stated these sorts of comments do not belong on HN news. Discussion of specifics are fine, but nationalist slurs are not. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48100358 Edit: wow, my bad. HN really loves low effort nationalistic slurs as entire comments now.

[flagged]

I'm American. Definitely did not think this was a slur.
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