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Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

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Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#231

Post by mindslight »

ikeboy wrote: post #200
mindslight wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Changing the system means removing the potential for abuse of power, not punishing abuse of power after the fact. At a certain point, punishing abuse of power after the fact is the only way to discourage the potential abuse of power. Like there is nothing that actually stops you or me from going and kidnapping someone. And that same dynamic applies to someone who happens to also be a sheriff who controls a jail due…

The warrant here was approved by a magistrate judge, and I would suggest making the process for approval more robust to reduce this kind of abuse. Personal civil liability and firing can also help.

I don't think magistrates rule on questions of law (maybe you were implying this, but maybe not). But in general the whole legal/justice system is basically blind to the harm it itself causes, so I don't think an actual judge looking at the merits of a warrant would be terribly adversarial to a sheriff either - they work together all the time, and most of the warrants presented by the sheriff are legitimate.

I do agree with you in general that we should aim to split system functions between multiple people. But this merely raises the bar, it doesn't make corrupt actions impossible. Which means we should be focusing on both avenues of reform, rather than emphasizing one to downplay another. Especially as when you do this, the entrenched system seems to takes advantage of the downplaying while resisting the solution being emphasized.

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#232

Post by implements »

okeuro49 wrote: post #77
contubernio wrote: post #28

The sheriff that arrested him should face criminal charges for misuse of authority. That he doesn't reflects a structural weakness in US law. In most European legal systems a law enforcement officer overstepping his legal authority would face criminal charges for it.

In the UK 30 people are arrested a day for social media posts online. Only about 10 percent resulting in convictions. Police don't face criminal charges for this. https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/police-make-30-arr...

Excuse the whataboutism, but how many Americans are arrested for “disorderly conduct” each day? (Which from my YouTube police footage watching appears to be “being an annoying arsehole in public” [1] ie a broadly similar moral misbehaviour)

> [1] An overt act or conduct in public (or affecting the public) that disturbs the peace, safety, morals, or order (e.g., fighting, making unreasonable noise, using obscene/abusive language or gestures, obstructing traffic, creating hazardous/physically offensive conditions, refusing to disperse).

Our online laws which Americans often seem to view entirely through the lens of free speech are more about public (dis)order. It’s not ideas that are being censored, it’s personal conduct online which may be harassing, threatening, abusive or may create a breach of the peace.

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#233

Post by joe_mamba »

kimixa wrote: post #219
okeuro49 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK 30 people are arrested a day for social media posts online. Only about 10 percent resulting in convictions. Police don't face criminal charges for this. https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/police-make-30-arr...

Note that the quoted laws also cover things that would be restraining or harassment orders in the USA.

[flagged]

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#234

Post by ceejayoz »

ikeboy wrote: post #228
ceejayoz wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can a deliberate blatant violation of the First Amendment be "due process of law"?

Look up the elements of false imprisonment. When there's a warrant, even if wrongly granted, the arrest and imprisonment is considered lawful.

No, it isn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#235

Post by hirvi74 »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #93
Arubis wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a sane, fair, and (crucially) long-term stable system, persons given privilege and authority over others are subject to a higher standard for their own behavior. The long-running US trend of the inverse (additional legal protections for positions of authority) is incredibly destructive. This is a moral and values judgment, yes, but it's not just that -- it communicates to the population at large that they should f…

One of the worst examples in the US is the consequence asymmetry for speech. Law enforcement and federal agents can lie as much as they like with impunity when dealing with citizens, but (a) it's a federal crime to lie to a federal officer (18 US Code § 1001, up to 8 years imprisonment), and (b) truly, anything you say to law enforcement when under any suspicion can and will be used against you in a court of law, eve…

> legal ability to arbitrarily arrest anyone they want.

As the famous Russian saying goes, "Был бы человек, а статья найдется" (Show me the man, and I will show you the crime.)

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#236

Post by jerrac »

ceejayoz wrote: post #129
jerrac wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wondered if anyone else noticed that. I upvoted. Hopefully more people will as well to balance out the bias. To those of you downvoting, please articulate why you think something deserves a downvote. As it is, I can only assume rather hypocritical double standards. Someone saying something anti-Trump is ok, but someone saying something anti-Leftist (or Clinton) is not? (For the record, I 100% am on the side of the…

In one case, the meme was accurate - the photo, the quote, and its attribution were all accurate, and the cops knew that. It never made it to trial, for obvious reasons. In the other, it was false information, a grand jury indicted, and a jury convicted. The appeal rested on the government struggling to demonstrate a) anyone actively fell for the information and b) the conspiracy element. ( https://ww3.ca2.uscourts.g…

In both cases the reason someone was persecuted was they offended someone in power. And the system eventually ruled in their favor. That is the similarity.

If you view one of those cases as a bad result, then chances are you are biased.

That said, if you downvote because you have looked into the cases enough to think that that similarity is not valid, and then you can articulate it (like the person I'm replying too did) then I'd consider that fine. (Assuming they downvoted, they may not have.) I may still think there's some bias there, but it's not uninformed bias.

If you can't articulate a reason you want to downvote, then it's bias and emotion fueling your downvote. Which, I don't consider to be a valid reason to downvote.

As a side note, I think we all need to be aware of how similar the things we hear about the "bad" side are. The comments I see about Trump weaponizing the Department of Justice to oppress people is pretty much exactly what I saw said about Biden weaponizing the Department of Justice to oppress people during his administration. I also have seen MANY comments where if you replace "Biden" or "Trump" with the other name, you end up with a comment the other side would make. I think that should trigger some self-reflection. I know I'm still trying to figure out what to think about it.

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#237

Post by kadushka »

freediddy wrote: post #155

The fact that taxpayers and not the police themselves have to pay the settlement is the worst part of this. Every settlement against the police should be taken from their pension fund. This is something I've been advocating for decades now, because it creates an incentive not to do things like this. Right now, good cops don't patrol bad cops because it won't affect them. By aligning the incentives right, it will mean…

How would this work? Where do the money for their pension fund come from? Would taking money from it result in them receiving smaller pensions?

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#238

Post by Hnrobert42 »

freediddy wrote: post #155

The fact that taxpayers and not the police themselves have to pay the settlement is the worst part of this. Every settlement against the police should be taken from their pension fund. This is something I've been advocating for decades now, because it creates an incentive not to do things like this. Right now, good cops don't patrol bad cops because it won't affect them. By aligning the incentives right, it will mean…

That's a lot of liability for police. They would likely buy insurance against it.

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#239

Post by kvnhn »

freediddy wrote: post #155

The fact that taxpayers and not the police themselves have to pay the settlement is the worst part of this. Every settlement against the police should be taken from their pension fund. This is something I've been advocating for decades now, because it creates an incentive not to do things like this. Right now, good cops don't patrol bad cops because it won't affect them. By aligning the incentives right, it will mean…

What does your username mean?

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#240

Post by ndesaulniers »

okeuro49 wrote: post #77
contubernio wrote: post #28

The sheriff that arrested him should face criminal charges for misuse of authority. That he doesn't reflects a structural weakness in US law. In most European legal systems a law enforcement officer overstepping his legal authority would face criminal charges for it.

In the UK 30 people are arrested a day for social media posts online. Only about 10 percent resulting in convictions. Police don't face criminal charges for this. https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/police-make-30-arr...

I find it ironic; George Orwell was English!
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